|
|
Post by stevo on Aug 1, 2022 17:18:01 GMT
I know it's from the song. But it still makes no sense to me that a victory means football is coming home. It was first out as our official song for Euro 96. |
|
|
|
Post by choc on Aug 1, 2022 17:57:56 GMT
It would of course be rather based on your political persuasion but I would say Clement Atlee is probably regarded as the best ever prime minister let alone post war, surely you'd accept he pisses all over Thatcher, perhaps Blair but his war crimes really spoiled his reputation there. If you're a tory clearly these opinions won't really be something we could agree on. I have a two sided view as I was born Labour and of that persuasion until I was around 25 and now I lean a little tory but I am more centre right. To be honest the political class is so much more awash with rich folk Labour lack the identity of a socialist party and having a peer doesn't help the image. If someone launched a SOCIALIST party they could probably do well. Even the tories aint that tory anymore. Everyone scraps over the centre, centre left, centre right ground. Blair was a tory style PM cameron pushed into that middle ground to win it back and since then it seems the tories feel that is the election winning formula. I couldn't comment on Atlee as I wasn't around but Blair do me a favour. Not just the war but NHS policies/PFI. |
|
|
|
Post by choc on Aug 1, 2022 18:08:42 GMT
I think you need to read the book not watch the film. As I said many women worked on the space programme and still do but it was men that kicked it all off. If you look at the worlds greatest achievements, most were done by men. Not just men, but predominantly white men. The result of opportunity and privilege. That will change in the future. We are about to get our third female prime minister. We didn't have one before 1979. And she went on to be our best post-war leader. It takes time to undo thousands of years of entrenched prejudice. But it will happen. And we will have a much better world when it fully embraces diversity. The problem is that if you keep telling people that they have no opportunity or privilege in their society they will believe it. Asking the world to embrace diversity is about as achievable as stamping out racism. Best of luck with that👍 |
|
|
|
Post by ramsey on Aug 1, 2022 18:11:20 GMT
It would of course be rather based on your political persuasion but I would say Clement Atlee is probably regarded as the best ever prime minister let alone post war, surely you'd accept he pisses all over Thatcher, perhaps Blair but his war crimes really spoiled his reputation there. If you're a tory clearly these opinions won't really be something we could agree on. I have a two sided view as I was born Labour and of that persuasion until I was around 25 and now I lean a little tory but I am more centre right. To be honest the political class is so much more awash with rich folk Labour lack the identity of a socialist party and having a peer doesn't help the image. If someone launched a SOCIALIST party they could probably do well. Even the tories aint that tory anymore. Everyone scraps over the centre, centre left, centre right ground. Blair was a tory style PM cameron pushed into that middle ground to win it back and since then it seems the tories feel that is the election winning formula. Yes, my three would be Thatcher, Atlee & Blair in that order. I am a floating voter with no real allegiance to any party. I have probably voted Labour more than Tory, but have voted Tory since 2010. Atlee comes a close second as the father of the modern welfare system and the NHS but I think Thatcher did more to ensure the prosperity of the UK in the last four decades. |
|
|
|
Post by ramsey on Aug 1, 2022 18:26:03 GMT
Not just men, but predominantly white men. The result of opportunity and privilege. That will change in the future. We are about to get our third female prime minister. We didn't have one before 1979. And she went on to be our best post-war leader. It takes time to undo thousands of years of entrenched prejudice. But it will happen. And we will have a much better world when it fully embraces diversity. The problem is that if you keep telling people that they have no opportunity or privilege in their society they will believe it. Asking the world to embrace diversity is about as achievable as stamping out racism. Best of luck with that👍 That's demonstrably not true, especially in the West. I am far more optimistic. Politics, science, business and education are leading the way and women and ethnic minorities are getting much better representation in many fields. The western world in particular is far more meritocratic than it was a couple of generations ago. We have already come a long way. It'll take more time but it will happen. |
|
|
|
Post by TILTON on Aug 1, 2022 18:42:07 GMT
Atlee smashed it.
I don't think there was great follow up in following governments and it's clear this now needs reform.
Sadly I feel that non urgent stuff may be better covered by some form of insurance and this could be pushed into employment contracts as a work perk then unemployed folks still get it without insurance.
Also the amount of pen pushing and middle/senior management roles where money is being wasted is apparently huge. I know a few involved at that level and they say the money wastage is off the chart. Can't keep just throwing money at it.
The mental health side of things is going to be a very very expensive bill to pay over the next generation.
|
|
|
|
Post by tonyhancock on Aug 1, 2022 19:47:11 GMT
The thing with Atlee is, for years after the war, he used over 400,000 German soldiers as slave labour in Britain.
He re-classified German soldiers from prisoners of war, to surrendered enemy personnel. This meant that they wouldn't be protected by the Geneva convention, and re-repatriated.
I'm sure some of you might think, serves 'em right, and I don't want to spend forever arguing about that. But it's a tad rich claiming the moral high ground, when hanging Germans for doing the same thing.
|
|
