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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2020 20:57:05 GMT
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Post by honkybluenose on Feb 12, 2020 21:18:48 GMT
In March 2019 the chairman of the disciplinary committee was quoted in clause 35 of the report as saying we had complied with all aspects of the business plan. It’s worth a read as this statement is absolutely clear and unambiguous. For this reason I just don’t see how it is not selling players in January. Surely this statement and where it is made is irrefutable evidence in the clubs favour. Either the Club complied or the independent chairman is a liar. If he was a liar the EFL would not have accepted the report and appealed the sanction as they had the opportunity to do so. It must be concluded therefore that in the eyes of the independent chairman we complied during the January window and in March the EFL were happy we had. In May they charged us so something must have changed. It can’t be therefore that we didn’t sell players in January. Could it be to do with the ground sale? Can’t think of anything else. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2020 21:29:04 GMT
Surely the charge would be worded around 'Ground Sale' as opposed to Business plan?
I wouldn't imagine raising money from the ground sale whilst selling at a very likely to be market value.
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Post by gammo on Feb 12, 2020 21:50:35 GMT
Wasn’t this story bought up & dismissed a month or so ago? Looks like the same story to me (lazy journalism on the papers behalf) ☹️
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2020 22:08:18 GMT
Op doesn't seem to think so.
The hearing has taken place.
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Post by screamoblue on Feb 12, 2020 22:11:45 GMT
Wasn’t this story bought up & dismissed a month or so ago? Looks like the same story to me (lazy journalism on the papers behalf) ☹️ Not dismissed, no. The club confirmed they'd been charged a few months ago and said they denied it and were willing to fight it. The hearing was today, as the article states. Gut feeling is, we wont get a point deduction |
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Post by quark on Feb 12, 2020 22:20:33 GMT
Wasn’t this story bought up & dismissed a month or so ago? Looks like the same story to me (lazy journalism on the papers behalf) ☹️ Not dismissed, no. The club confirmed they'd been charged a few months ago and said they denied it and were willing to fight it. The hearing was today, as the article states. Gut feeling is, we wont get a point deduction If we do we should take it to court |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2020 22:30:09 GMT
Wasn’t this story bought up & dismissed a month or so ago? Looks like the same story to me (lazy journalism on the papers behalf) ☹️ Not dismissed, no. The club confirmed they'd been charged a few months ago and said they denied it and were willing to fight it. The hearing was today, as the article states. Gut feeling is, we wont get a point deduction I dare say in this case you would have to be a bit sore if they have not learned from the previous situation how to deal with the EFL. If it is the business plan and not selling players in January I dare say that has been mitigated by the presentation of actual facts proving they have raised more money by delaying the decision to sell and without them being privvy to the transfer offers how can these be proven as fact unless the buying clubs have provided factual evidence that they bid for said player?? The decision not to sell also was pivotal to remaining in this league and maintaining better income. I do have a feeling we may get hit with 2 points but it will be suspended so they can they laud it over us for another two years. On this subject I read the CAS documentation tonight on MCFC v UEFA. Although I did skim a little towards the end. I can't imagine DONG getting involved with CAS and then the defence being as indepth as City tried! can't really see "It wasn't me" as a long enough case for a defence.  www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/user_upload/Award_CAS_6298_internet.pdf |
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Post by cassano on Feb 12, 2020 22:40:27 GMT
Not dismissed, no. The club confirmed they'd been charged a few months ago and said they denied it and were willing to fight it. The hearing was today, as the article states. Gut feeling is, we wont get a point deduction If we do we should take it to court Or refuse to complete our fixtures |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2020 22:54:05 GMT
Obviously you would like that!!
What a great idea get awarded countless 3-0 walk overs then get relegated for refusing to play!
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Post by bluescharlie on Feb 12, 2020 22:55:52 GMT
Also refusing to play may lead to points deduction in it self. Bolton have 6 points suspended after they postponed a game against Doncaster. With us it’d be an immediate 12 point deduction.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2020 22:58:45 GMT
If that was Blues they would probably delay teh deduction until the next season to make sure they get the mileage out of it!
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Post by brummy74 on Feb 13, 2020 10:08:06 GMT
i was looking at the league table and if the EFL do punish Sheff Weds the same as they did to us Monk will be in deep shit 34 points same as Stoke, Thats if and that is a big IF they take 9 points off them
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Post by jazzzy786 on Feb 13, 2020 18:00:55 GMT
Looks like the honeymoon for Garry Monk is over. Wednesday really struggling ATM. Losing to Luton. I think we have them soon and I think the number 2 will poo all over the number 1s team which looks weak as piss.
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Post by gammo on Feb 13, 2020 19:59:43 GMT
i was looking at the league table and if the EFL do punish Sheff Weds the same as they did to us Monk will be in deep shit 34 points same as Stoke, Thats if and that is a big IF they take 9 points off them Personally think it’ll be 12 (or more) points deducted. We had 9 deducted for failing P&S but they've took it a step further by trying to bypass a 9 point deduction through the means of lying/deception towards the EFL on the price of their stadium. Derby aren’t safe from a points deduction yet either 🧐 |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2020 21:37:05 GMT
i was looking at the league table and if the EFL do punish Sheff Weds the same as they did to us Monk will be in deep shit 34 points same as Stoke, Thats if and that is a big IF they take 9 points off them Personally think it’ll be 12 (or more) points deducted. We had 9 deducted for failing P&S but they've took it a step further by trying to bypass a 9 point deduction through the means of lying/deception towards the EFL on the price of their stadium. Derby aren’t safe from a points deduction yet either 🧐 Could well be, although it could be argued that our breach of embargo was an antagonising factor and lesser punishments could be handed out to other clubs. Hurrah for opacity! |
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Post by almajir on Feb 14, 2020 7:19:39 GMT
Not dismissed, no. The club confirmed they'd been charged a few months ago and said they denied it and were willing to fight it. The hearing was today, as the article states. Gut feeling is, we wont get a point deduction If we do we should take it to court We can’t. The disciplinary hearing is a tribunal which is binding on all parties with only one appeal allowed. It’s been set up in a way that it cannot be legally challenged. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2020 9:54:58 GMT
As of 6th February the news was derby were still in dark about when they would have a hearing on theirs.
I would assume they didn’t have their hearing the other day as I guess most clubs would get decent lead time for a hearing.
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Post by honkybluenose on Feb 14, 2020 12:53:55 GMT
If we do we should take it to court We can’t. The disciplinary hearing is a tribunal which is binding on all parties with only one appeal allowed. It’s been set up in a way that it cannot be legally challenged.[/quote Binding tribunals still have to be fair and reasonable and give out any punishments consistent with the law. They can certainly be challenged in the courts on those grounds. For me it all comes back to clause 35 in the March 2019 ruling. This effectively totally cleared us of any wrongdoing in the January 2019 window. If the charge goes back to then I think we could go to court on the fact that the charge was unreasonable in the first place. |
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Post by bluenoserob on Feb 14, 2020 13:01:10 GMT
I can actually understand why they waited until the summer window to get a better fee.
Can’t understand why this tribunal shouldn’t see this.
What I can’t understand is how Dong & Co have hemorrhaged £88 million in the last 3 years?
It’s no wonder they are being looked into.
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Post by bertieauld on Feb 14, 2020 15:38:41 GMT
I can actually understand why they waited until the summer window to get a better fee. Can’t understand why this tribunal shouldn’t see this. What I can’t understand is how Dong & Co have hemorrhaged £88 million in the last 3 years? It’s no wonder they are being looked into. It's totally to do with wages rob, we are simply paying our players far too much. Maybe in the summer with a lot of our big earner out of contract, it may ease the situation  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2020 17:27:56 GMT
it’s not just players wages I would be stunned if player wages covered more than 60% of that bill
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Post by jazzzy786 on Feb 14, 2020 18:56:56 GMT
Even if 20 first team players were on £20k it doesn't add up anywhere near to £100m.
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Post by bubba on Feb 15, 2020 10:27:47 GMT
Personally think it’ll be 12 (or more) points deducted. We had 9 deducted for failing P&S but they've took it a step further by trying to bypass a 9 point deduction through the means of lying/deception towards the EFL on the price of their stadium. Derby aren’t safe from a points deduction yet either 🧐 Could well be, although it could be argued that our breach of embargo was an antagonising factor and lesser punishments could be handed out to other clubs. Hurrah for opacity! The embargo breach was dealt with and deemed to not be deserving of a points deduction in and of itself or even an antagonising factor, I believe the league signing it off effectively killed their own objection on that point.
None of us have all the facts, however going by what we do know and regardless of the fighting stance taken by both Wednesday and Derby I'm inclined to agree wth Gammo.
I predict no points deduction for blues
Both Derby and Wednesday to have bigger points deductions than blues (9 points) with harsher antagonising factor elements
Derby to get a heavier penalty than Wednesday.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2020 12:02:12 GMT
Could well be, although it could be argued that our breach of embargo was an antagonising factor and lesser punishments could be handed out to other clubs. Hurrah for opacity! The embargo breach was dealt with and deemed to not be deserving of a points deduction in and of itself or even an antagonising factor, I believe the league signing it off effectively killed their own objection on that point.
None of us have all the facts, however going by what we do know and regardless of the fighting stance taken by both Wednesday and Derby I'm inclined to agree wth Gammo.
I predict no points deduction for blues
Both Derby and Wednesday to have bigger points deductions than blues (9 points) with harsher antagonising factor elements
Derby to get a heavier penalty than Wednesday.
Fair enough. I'm predicting 9 points for Derby and 6 for Wednesday. |
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Post by bubba on Mar 7, 2020 10:02:55 GMT
Could well be, although it could be argued that our breach of embargo was an antagonising factor and lesser punishments could be handed out to other clubs. Hurrah for opacity! The embargo breach was dealt with and deemed to not be deserving of a points deduction in and of itself or even an antagonising factor, I believe the league signing it off effectively killed their own objection on that point.
None of us have all the facts, however going by what we do know and regardless of the fighting stance taken by both Wednesday and Derby I'm inclined to agree wth Gammo.
I predict no points deduction for blues
Both Derby and Wednesday to have bigger points deductions than blues (9 points) with harsher antagonising factor elements
Derby to get a heavier penalty than Wednesday.
One down two to go. 
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Post by brightside on Mar 7, 2020 10:10:28 GMT
👍👍
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Post by bubba on Mar 7, 2020 10:17:47 GMT
I saw Dan mention somewhere he doubted that the Derby and Wednesday cases would be sorted this season but I recalled having read that the EFL were determined both cases would be completed before the end of the season. I tried searching for what I thought I'd read (quite extensively) and I did find it on a couple of obscure news sites but pretty sure that's not where I originally saw the information.
Anyway Dan may be right, there are complications and counter-measures being put up by both clubs but I'm still expecting both to be sorted in the next few weeks. The Wednesday and Derby fans are none the wiser either but a lot/nearly all of the proceedings are carried out in secrecy and not even made public after the fact. There's rumour that the arbitration to decide whether the EFL's charge against Wednesday is even legal has already concluded but nobody really knows.
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Post by gammo on Mar 7, 2020 10:42:51 GMT
We were deducted the 9 points on 22nd March last year so I'd think more announcements around that time
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2020 10:53:11 GMT
I don’t quite know how drastic the EFL business plan was but we signed no more players than they allowed after the Pedersen deal.
A quick glance at the accounts show out commercial income increased by £4m our wage bill reduced by £4m and we brought in another £4.5m on disposal of players, which includes loan fees for Ndoye and the sale of Jota.
We’ve sold the stadium to a connected entity at a fair value. Although this hasn’t been registered at Land Registry yet but there isn’t the requirement to do so upon completion so I wouldn’t get too worried about that.
Headlines losses before the stadium sale of £25m is a positive step from where we were but it would have been nigh on impossible to get those losses below £13m for the season unless there was a genuine 7 figure bid for Che in January and I’m led to believe there wasn’t
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