Moved posts

[bluenoserob]

Why is the opinion of Remainers that Brexiteers are all xenophobic?
I voted to leave the EU because I feel we should have right to trade wherever we can strike a deal any where in the world.
I also believe that the EU will never work across all member countries unless they all have a unified pension and benefits system along with taxation for income tax and VAT.
Justified reasons that would make all EU countries equal.
That is nothing to do with slurs from remainders that we hate foreigners, which is not only an insult, but absolute bollocks.
Not only was the vote on leaving a democratic vote, it was also unanimously repeated in the recent European elections.
Equally, the General Election result will tell us all that democratic voting will give us a final result.
Remain or Stay.

[Deleted]

Nov 12, 2019 15:02:36 GMT bluenoserob said:

Why is the opinion of Remainers that Brexiteers are all xenophobic?
I voted to leave the EU because I feel we should have right to trade wherever we can strike a deal any where in the world.
I also believe that the EU will never work across all member countries unless they all have a unified pension and benefits system along with taxation for income tax and VAT.
Justified reasons that would make all EU countries equal.
That is nothing to do with slurs from remainders that we hate foreigners, which is not only an insult, but absolute bollocks.
Not only was the vote on leaving a democratic vote, it was also unanimously repeated in the recent European elections.
Equally, the General Election result will tell us all that democratic voting will give us a final result.
Remain or Stay.

FWIW i dont believe people who want to leave the EU are xenophobic.  Unfortunately its a generalisation that seems to stick in internet debates.

The reality is that its just the people who are actually xenophobic just bang a very loud drum for leaving the EU- ruining it for people who have genuine reasons for leaving.


Whilst i am what is termed a "remainer" i dont have a problem with us leaving the EU- mymain problems with leaving are 2 fold:

1) i still dont think we are in agreement with what leaving actually is (last week Old Nige was slating Boris's deal as the worst thing ever- this week hes happy with it?)

2) we dont have have competent people in charge who are capable of replicating trade deals that we already have so we are only ever going to be worse off


the mad thing is go back 5 years and no one gave 2 Fcuks about being in or out of the EU- now its deciding everything- its almost like the ruling class would prefer us to debate over something that barely affects us to distract us from all the stuff they should be doing.......

[Deleted]

I think we can all agree Nige took a lovely bung or the secret service have enough dirt to destroy him so a deal is done.

Unilaterally I doubt it very much.

Either way it will get wrapped up and we can move on. I don’t think it will change lives that much as it’s a watered down brexit

[Deleted]

We wont be able to move on......weve got 10 years minimum of this to come...

Theyve only done the relatively easy bit of settling the tab....theyve got to work out a Trade agreement next.......thats riddled with all kinds of problems for whoever takes this country forward.

[Deleted]

I don’t see it being a problem to re align trade agreements these will be fast tracked. The Germans won’t be putting up barriers to get their cars to the uk it don’t make any sense at all.

If we think that’s trillions of pounds worth of import/export deals will suddenly be halted then that just won’t be allowed to happen by ours or anyone else’s governments.

They won’t be making fresh agreements they will just be adapting the import export agreements.

Even in the yellow scammer document they were saying up to 20% could be affected. That’s their worse case stab without a single consultation with Calais. I would say most of that is down to existing agreement terms ceasing during the course of the transition.

The big major deals will be signed off by government to keep them ticking over.

Don’t worry you won’t be shy of a few BMWS any time soon lol

[Deleted]

On the subject of all things foreign which I guess is another roundabout way of saying racist.

My children are mixed race so think on.

[bluenoserob]

Nov 12, 2019 16:07:59 GMT @bluenose68 said:

Nov 12, 2019 15:02:36 GMT bluenoserob said:

Why is the opinion of Remainers that Brexiteers are all xenophobic?
I voted to leave the EU because I feel we should have right to trade wherever we can strike a deal any where in the world.
I also believe that the EU will never work across all member countries unless they all have a unified pension and benefits system along with taxation for income tax and VAT.
Justified reasons that would make all EU countries equal.
That is nothing to do with slurs from remainders that we hate foreigners, which is not only an insult, but absolute bollocks.
Not only was the vote on leaving a democratic vote, it was also unanimously repeated in the recent European elections.
Equally, the General Election result will tell us all that democratic voting will give us a final result.
Remain or Stay.

FWIW i dont believe people who want to leave the EU are xenophobic.  Unfortunately its a generalisation that seems to stick in internet debates.

The reality is that its just the people who are actually xenophobic just bang a very loud drum for leaving the EU- ruining it for people who have genuine reasons for leaving.


Whilst i am what is termed a "remainer" i dont have a problem with us leaving the EU- mymain problems with leaving are 2 fold:

1) i still dont think we are in agreement with what leaving actually is (last week Old Nige was slating Boris's deal as the worst thing ever- this week hes happy with it?)

2) we dont have have competent people in charge who are capable of replicating trade deals that we already have so we are only ever going to be worse off


the mad thing is go back 5 years and no one gave 2 Fcuks about being in or out of the EU- now its deciding everything- its almost like the ruling class would prefer us to debate over something that barely affects us to distract us from all the stuff they should be doing.......

Agree with a lot of that.
Brexit has dominated Parliament for over 3 years.
There are massive problems that have been pushed to one side.
Stabbing epidemic.
Car snatching
Scooter idiots snatching crime
Disgusting state of our roads
High Street demise
Benefit fraud
Illegal immigrants, not to be confused with legal movement within the EU.
The 38 people who died in a cold storage wagon are surely just typical of how serious this problem is.
We need to put Brexit to bed and start dealing with the problems of this country again.

[Deleted]

Benefit fraud...

Know it all inside out upside down. Worked in the field and the race accusations would increase immeasurably if I made my knowledge of public.

[Deleted]

Nov 12, 2019 15:02:36 GMT bluenoserob said:

Why is the opinion of Remainers that Brexiteers are all xenophobic?
I voted to leave the EU because I feel we should have right to trade wherever we can strike a deal any where in the world.
I also believe that the EU will never work across all member countries unless they all have a unified pension and benefits system along with taxation for income tax and VAT.
Justified reasons that would make all EU countries equal.
That is nothing to do with slurs from remainders that we hate foreigners, which is not only an insult, but absolute bollocks.
Not only was the vote on leaving a democratic vote, it was also unanimously repeated in the recent European elections.
Equally, the General Election result will tell us all that democratic voting will give us a final result.
Remain or Stay.

Thanks to our membership of the EU, we already have trade deals with dozens, if not hundreds, of countries. See here:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_free_trade_agreements

Sure some of them are still being negotiated, but the EU will be several years in front of the UK when we leave. 

With which countries that the EU does not have trade deals would you like us to have a trade deal?

Please list them here, I beg you.

Jolly good luck with securing trade deals with the old Soviet Union, China and Angola.

As for the pensions/benefits systems, and the income tax and VAT, well we already have the freedom to set those ourselves, so how is leaving going to improve matters?

I’m sorry, but all of these “excuses” are non-starters.

The General Election will do one thing, and one thing only - it will confirm that the majority of UK voters are xenophobic at best.

I’lll leave you to work out what they are at worst.

[bluenoserob]

So the result of the General Election will prove that the majority of this country are xenophobic?
Complete and utter rubbish, and spoken like a true remainer who can’t accept the result of a democratic vote.

So because someone has the audacity not to agree with the
World of Will
It is perfectly acceptable to label that person as a racist, because by telling them they are xenophobic, that’s what you are implying.
It never fails to amaze me how someone who is incredibly opinionated, is so offended by anyone who disagrees with their opinion and their way of dealing with that is to label that person with a slur.

[Deleted]

Nov 13, 2019 2:00:04 GMT bluenoserob said:

So the result of the General Election will prove that the majority of this country are xenophobic?
Complete and utter rubbish, and spoken like a true remainer who can’t accept the result of a democratic vote.

So because someone has the audacity not to agree with the
World of Will
It is perfectly acceptable to label that person as a racist, because by telling them they are xenophobic, that’s what you are implying.
It never fails to amaze me how someone who is incredibly opinionated, is so offended by anyone who disagrees with their opinion and their way of dealing with that is to label that person with a slur.

And yet you are so offended that I disagree with you, and you label me with a slur.

Ironic, eh?

You said you wanted the UK to be able to strike deals with other countries - I showed you evidence that, thanks to our current membership of the EU we already have favourable trade deals with 80% of the globe. Do you seriously think that when we are no longer members of the EU , and therefore no longer have those trade deals, we are just going to be able to magic up similar or better deals with all of those countries? And as for the countries where we don’t currently have deals, like the former Soviet Union countries, China and Angola, do you not think that there are going to be all sorts of strings attached to deals we might do with them?

Only by doing exactly what you accuse me of, you’ve failed to answer those questions.

You’re dead right I’m opinionated - you know we’ve just had Remembrance Day? Like you, I expect, I was wearing my poppy proudly. I was doing that because those men and women sacrificed their lives and/or their youth to enable people like you and me not only to have opinions, but also to have the right to express them. My opinion is that we are about to sacrifice something which makes this country a better place in which to live, and we’re making that sacrifice either because people soaked up lies without checking facts, or because they have a natural distrust of foreigners.

And in ny opinion that means that this country is going to be a worse place in which to live.

[bluenoserob]

No Will, I was offended to be labelled a xenophobic.
You don’t personally know 17.5 million people, but your opinion is the majority hate foreigners.
Yes, you have the right like everyone else to your opinion.
But the person hasn’t been born or put on this planet who could convince you that you’re not right about everything.
Your on another planet sunshine.

[Deleted]

Nov 13, 2019 11:32:43 GMT bluenoserob said:

No Will, I was offended to be labelled a xenophobic.
You don’t personally know 17.5 million people, but your opinion is the majority hate foreigners.
Yes, you have the right like everyone else to your opinion.
But the person hasn’t been born or put on this planet who could convince you that you’re not right about everything.
Your on another planet sunshine.

Not “hate” foreigners.

”Distrust” foreigners.

It’s clear as day which word I used in my previous post.

I also said that people had either soaked up lies without checking facts or they have a natural distrust of foreigners. 

I’m offended by being told that I’m talking rubbish and that I’m a remoaner.

I keep asking questions to any of the 17.5m people who voted to leave, and they keep evading them, as you have done yet again on the question relating to the number of countries with which the EU has trading deals. I ask people why they think we don’t have control of our borders when we’re not in Schengen. I ask them why they think that the EU is any more undemocratic than the UK where we have an unelected Upper Chamber. I ask them why they think we don’t have control over our currency when we opted out of the Euro. When I ask them which EU laws they are looking forward to ditching on the day after we leave, the best they can come up with is “bendy bananas” and “prawn cocktail crisps”, both of which are, I believe, still on sale here.

It almost seems as if they don’t want me to know what they think are the positives of leaving the EU. Or that they don’t really know themselves.

Still, all of you Brexiteers have made your beds, and now you must lie in them. Sadly you’ve also made my bed, and, worse still, the beds of my kids, and we will have to lie in them too. But don’t you dare expect me to go silently into the night when things turn out, as they already have, to be not quite so rosy as the 17.5m allowed themselves to be convinced they would be. 

[bluenoserob]

I feel really sorry for your wife.

[Deleted]

Nov 13, 2019 12:49:13 GMT bluenoserob said:

I feel really sorry for your wife.

Do you?

Have you met her?

Oh, you haven’t?

So how do you know how she thinks or feels?

Bearing in mind what you said about me making judgements about people I’ve never met, that’s a bit hypocritical, isn’t it?

And, I note, still no comment from you about the trade deals we have thanks to our current membership of the EU. Just sarky comments about a member of my family. That’s great political debating, that is. Well done Rob. You must be proud.

[bluenoserob]

The word Pompous springs to mind.
Followed by beyond words.

[Deleted]

Nov 13, 2019 13:20:54 GMT bluenoserob said:

The word Pompous springs to mind.
Followed by beyond words.

Still no answer.

Just more abuse.

Still, at least it’s aimed at me this time, rather than someone in my family.

I’ll take that as a positive.

[bluenoserob]

Well, obviously you are right Will
I mean, let’s face it, you’ve never been wrong about anything in your life.

[Deleted]

Nov 13, 2019 15:43:20 GMT bluenoserob said:

Well, obviously you are right Will
I mean, let’s face it, you’ve never been wrong about anything in your life.

Not at all.

I mean, I actually thought you might want to engage in a discussion about trade deals.

But I was wrong there, wasn’t I?

[bluenoserob]

There are 195 countries in the world.
28, soon to be 27 of them in the EU.
Some big guns there.
USA
Canada
India
Japan
Australia
New Zealand
Egypt
South Africa
To mention a few.
And, they seem to be doing ok and keep on growing.
But you would know the answer to that Will.
Bloody hell, you know the answer to everything.
What’s your wife’s opinion Will?
Or does she have to ask your permission to have one first?

[Deleted]

Ah, I see you didn’t bother to look at the link I helpfully provided for you yesterday, as each and every one of those countries has an agreement with the EU, or else is in the process of negotiating one. When we leave we will have to join a queue to negotiate new treaties with each of them, which will take years and years, and the EU will have their treaties tied up ages before we do. That’s not me “being clever”, that’s just a case of checking facts. A pity you don’t back up your arguments with a bit of research yourself. Still, as I said before, Brexiteers fall into two categories; those who believe the lies fed to them by right wing politicians and media, and those who are xenophobic. So, I guess you fall into the first category after all.

Oh and I see you have taken a step back by insulting my wife again. You’re obviously trying to provoke an equally unpleasant response from me, but I’ll not fall into that trap. I do think that you should grow a pair though, and leave her out of it - I’m a big enough target to aim at without casting aspersions about her.

[bluenoserob]

What a pity you do not believe in democracy.
That you think, or in your case, know better than anyone, that you are right and the majority of voters, in your fantasy world, are wrong.
The referendum vote was settled with the highest number of votes in the history of our country.
This was followed up in the Euro elections, when all the remoaners had a chance to show the country that staying in the EU was what this country wanted.
It was a slaughter at the polling booths.
Now we have a General Election coming up where once again your lot have the chance to prove us all wrong.
The word once again Will is
DEMOCRACY.
Do us a favour
Look it up in the dictionary.

[Deleted]

Nov 13, 2019 18:48:48 GMT bluenoserob said:

What a pity you do not believe in democracy.
That you think, or in your case, know better than anyone, that you are right and the majority of voters, in your fantasy world, are wrong.
The referendum vote was settled with the highest number of votes in the history of our country.
This was followed up in the Euro elections, when all the remoaners had a chance to show the country that staying in the EU was what this country wanted.
It was a slaughter at the polling booths.
Now we have a General Election coming up where once again your lot have the chance to prove us all wrong.
The word once again Will is
DEMOCRACY.
Do us a favour
Look it up in the dictionary.

I know what it means. I know that we are going to leave the EU. I know that the Tories are going to win the GE. While the EU Referendum was a straight fight between stay and leave and there’s no doubting the result, I’m at a loss to work out why the decision was to leave, unless my either/or suggestion outlined above is true, because there is, IN MY OPINION, no logic behind it. I’ll accept the result of the GE because that’s the way we do elections in this country, but the “first past the post” system is hardly the most democratic way of choosing a government - it’s merely the most convenient. But there you are, it is what it is.

Democracy is not just about who gets the most votes. It’s about holding the winners to account. It is certainly not about the losers just shutting up and going away, nor is it about them suddenly embracing the opinions of the winners. 

Although I have no right to change the results of elections and referenda, because of democracy and free speech I have every right to denounce those results, to question the motives of those responsible for them, and to point out when I think that promises made which clearly influenced those results have been reneged on.

What I do not have the right to do is to make fun of, or abuse, family members of those I am debating with.

[expatjohn]

I doubt there is a country in this world of ours that doesn't 'indulge' in xenophobia. It's not just we English!

That includes my current location!