Homeless people on the streets.

[bluenoserob]

Homeless people who are sleeping Rough.
I note this scandal has not been brought up during the campaign.
I don’t care who you vote for on this one.
Not enough is done for these people.
I don’t care that many are drug addicts or alcoholics, they deserve better than sleeping in doorways.
Surely more, much more, should be done to help these poor souls who have hit rock bottom.
Surely every town council should be obliged to provide a night time shelter for them, to provide shower facilities, and a bed for the night.
There is a big old building up New John Street, by the traffic lights, across the road from the Jet garage.
It would make a perfect destination, just a 5 minute walk from town.
All councils should be given money from the government coffers to fund such places.
This scandal should be put to bed, and so should these homeless people.

[coopobot]

An awfully high percentage of them have been offered places to stay. All the help in the world with food, shelter, treatment for addictions and crime offending. But they dont want it. They are happy begging and making a decent amount of money from it each day. Its just a shame that they then choose to piss it up the wall, smoke spice or taking other hard drugs.

If they dont want the help, and dont want to change. You’ll never help them.

There are of course the odd exception to this, who then of course deserve more help. But 99% of the ones you see around Birmingham City centre dont deserve a penny of your money.

[bluenoserob]

I was expecting a reply like that, so it wasn’t a surprise.
I just feel really sorry for them.
It’s not so much hitting rock bottom, it’s several levels below that.
I wouldn’t survive a night.
They need help.

[coopobot]

Your missing the point. The ones who you see around the city centre and high streets, they have the help offered to them. Most refuse it. There are many outreach charities that offer help, support networks, birmingham buisness district people offering them help. If they are arrested the police offer them help trying to find accomodation and support. But its refused.

If they dont want help. You cant give it them.

Again, as per my last comment. There are the odd exceptions. But sadly, not many. Especially not the ones who you see making a nice pot of money sitting outside the banks, tescos, mcdonalds etc.

[Deleted]

It is a complex issue about people with complex needs.

A lot of people begging are not homeless and not all homeless go out begging.

[Bluenose_68]

Nov 23, 2019 17:06:23 GMT coopobot said:

An awfully high percentage of them have been offered places to stay. All the help in the world with food, shelter, treatment for addictions and crime offending. But they dont want it. They are happy begging and making a decent amount of money from it each day. Its just a shame that they then choose to piss it up the wall, smoke spice or taking other hard drugs.

If they dont want the help, and dont want to change. You’ll never help them.

There are of course the odd exception to this, who then of course deserve more help. But 99% of the ones you see around Birmingham City centre dont deserve a penny of your money.

As selly says its an incredibly complex issue.  I do alot of work in Manchester and the scale of the problems in that city are truly tragic

The legal high thing is a real problem.  There was a BBc3 documentary a while ago about the effects it has on people.

Of course you can argue "but they dont want help"....but i think its the responsibility of the state to help people who cant help themselves 

Id love to understand if there is a correlation between social care spending and the no of homeless

[sapfo]

I think the huge influx of international students is a huge underestimated factor as to why we are short of rooms. Why rent to a pissed up junkie, when you can’t rent to a students for 9 months, early twice as much, and have it all up front?

[Deleted]

Nov 25, 2019 9:42:29 GMT Bluenose_68 said:

Nov 23, 2019 17:06:23 GMT coopobot said:

An awfully high percentage of them have been offered places to stay. All the help in the world with food, shelter, treatment for addictions and crime offending. But they dont want it. They are happy begging and making a decent amount of money from it each day. Its just a shame that they then choose to piss it up the wall, smoke spice or taking other hard drugs.

If they dont want the help, and dont want to change. You’ll never help them.

There are of course the odd exception to this, who then of course deserve more help. But 99% of the ones you see around Birmingham City centre dont deserve a penny of your money.

As selly says its an incredibly complex issue.  I do alot of work in Manchester and the scale of the problems in that city are truly tragic

The legal high thing is a real problem.  There was a BBc3 documentary a while ago about the effects it has on people.

Of course you can argue "but they dont want help"....but i think its the responsibility of the state to help people who cant help themselves 

Id love to understand if there is a correlation between social care spending and the no of homeless

Regarding the “legal” highs, they’re not legal. I work overlooking old square where most of the spice addicts in Birmingham congregate to score and also where the Geoff Horsfield Foundation does its outreach work.

Honestly state intervention wouldn’t work without massive investment in rehab that at the moment with and I say this in inverted commas “more worthy causes” are dealt with first. Working people are using food banks and I donate to cotteridge church food bank so people will prioritise that over people living in hostels who are shoplifting around town to buy spice.

It’s a complicated issue and no political party has got the answer unless serious money is thrown at it.

[AAAAAAAAAAA]

Ive worked with homeless people in the city centre for a few decades now. Whilst people in this thread are correct that a lot of support and outreach is offered to rough sleepers, it doesnt tell half the picture.

Firstly, in legal terms 'homeless' doesnt mean rough-sleeper. It means people who are without secure accommodation, so that could mean staying with friends or in a hostel. Many of the people you see in the city centre are living precariously in temporary accommodation - however a great number are also rough sleeping.

What we do is attempt to find temporary accommodation for these people and sign them up to the (months long) waiting list for Housing First, where they're given secure housing of their own. The idea Sapfo puts forward (that international students get in the way of housing British born homeless people) is absolute nonsence.

It makes me so angry that people, who clearly havent done any research or have any experience of it, throw around unsubstantiated ideas. There ARE more than enough houses to home people in Birmingham, that's why we get rough-sleepers sent to us from all across the country by various councils who work under strict budgets. There are about 12000 empty beds in Birmingham alone, not including the greater West Midlands region.

In fact, landlords relish the homeless market because it is extremely lucrative. Landlords and housing agencies are providing temporary accommodation for homeless people, which often amount to 4-10 people in shared houses. In return, landlords receive their housing benefit which is up to £200 per week per person. So in that house of 10 people, a landlord can be making £2000 p/w off of a social issue. They're supposed to offer support, but of course, they dont. The council can't afford to properly check up on these houses, so theyre getting away with it.

These houses are TERRIBLE. They're falling apart. There are stories of local gangs breaking in every night to use them to sell drugs. There's violence. They're cold. They're smelly. People are regularly assaulted inside them.

If that doesnt make your blood boil then I dont know what will. The idea people are making vast sums from homeless people is sickening.

Is it no wonder so many of these people don't want to move in? If you've survived on the streets for 5+ years, and the only other option being offered is unregulated housing, then you might want to take your chances on the streets.

So many of these people have been let down in one form or another by the state. The majority have left care, and haven't been equipped for the demands of the world. These are highly vulnerable people. This is no to denigrate the work the care services do, it's a question of funding. There is a massive issue with the number of the staff in social care, they're overworked with caseloads which mean they cant offer proper support(I'm talking triple figures of clients per staff member). The same goes with probation workers, who are supposed to support prison-leavers with job hunting and housing, but often dont have the time or the funding to do so.

As with anything, this is all to do with austerity. Homelessness has doubled under the Conservatives, and only PROPERLY FUNDED social services and holding rogue landlords to account will do anything to stop this. We're chucking money at landlords who are making a killing off of it.

I have my doubts over Corbyn. But Birmingham cant continue like this. Ive worked with homeless people for over 20 years and it gets worse and worse every year. We're falling apart at the seams because we're not being properly funded. If you're looking at the two major parties and there's one who have a history of cutting public spending and defund charity projects, and there's one which has a history in creating social services such as the NHS and social housing... well for me it's a no brainer

[sapfo]

Sorry, but I think the students are part of it. I don’t blame them though. There is a multiple new estates in Coventry housing no locals. Nechells has a night proportion of students. As does Balsall Heath, Lee Bank, and Edgebaston, the shithole side. 10 years ago not one student rented in those places. They use up the beds, but as the are paying a fortune to come here, nothing is said about it.

Also, the Labour Party spent the money remember. The Tories has no choice but to make cuts.

And regarding needing a change. Our council is a Labour council. What have they done for your cause? Absolutely fcuk all that’s what!!

[AAAAAAAAAAA]

I really disagree, and I've said why in my last message. There's 12000 empty beds in Birmingham.

But, let's say what you said was correct. If you think that international students are driving up prices thereby pricing out locals then what do you think the solution is?

As you say, they bring enormous amounts of money into the local economy.

Dont you think regulating the housing market more stringently and tightly would be the answer, so that tenants have MORE rights and landlords arent able to hike prices extortionately?
These really arent radical proposals, most European cities have rental protection laws. England is lagging behind, largely because so many of our MPs (on both sides of the aisle, but mostly Tories) are landlords. There's a real reluctance to hold landlords to account in this country, and it's a disgrace. It isnt helped by a clogged up and underfunded court system either.

For me the question is this: does the state fulfill its duty to look after its most vulnerable citizens? You called it my cause, but I honestly dont see it like that. Homelessness is everyone's cause.

As for your point about Labour spending and the council. If you're pretending there isnt a real economic debate as to the effectiveness or necessity of austerity then you're being willfully myopic. It's fine to fall on the side of the debate to say it was necessary, but at least read both sides because it's more complicated than Cameron, Osborne et al had you believe.

Agree. Our council is rubbish. One reason is again underfunding. There are some very very well informed and empathetic members in the council however
Our conservative mayor is rubbish too. The rollout of Housing First has been an absolute disaster