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HS2
Feb 11, 2020 18:12:36 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2020 18:12:36 GMT
Approved today. For it? Against it? Ambivalent?
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HS2
Feb 11, 2020 18:53:10 GMT
Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2020 18:53:10 GMT
Waste of money that could be used to improve public transport nationwide in a much shorter time period than HS2 will take to complete.
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HS2
Feb 11, 2020 18:53:37 GMT
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Post by bluenoserob on Feb 11, 2020 18:53:37 GMT
Just watched a Central News Special. All about HS2. I’m all for not getting left behind and preparing for the modernisation of the future. But! Central showed a Forest just the other side of Kenilworth which is centuries old and really beautiful. They spoke to people who are mortified, and I’m not talking about anarchists. It will be destroyed by HS2, ffs surely they could go round it instead of through it? It’s a heavy price to pay losing such an environment as this.
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HS2
Feb 11, 2020 18:57:51 GMT
Post by tonyhancock on Feb 11, 2020 18:57:51 GMT
Against. There is no way this can ever pay for itself. No private company would have ever touched it. The government is taking a staggering amount of money off us, to pay someone else to do something of minimal benefit. And don't get me started on that insane bridge idea.
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Feb 11, 2020 19:06:27 GMT
Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2020 19:06:27 GMT
Waste of money that could be used to improve public transport nationwide in a much shorter time period than HS2 will take to complete. I can see what you’re getting at bitf. But you have to admit that New Street is working above capacity at the moment - not in terms of passengers (even though it can be bedlam on the platforms) but in terms of trains using the station. If you just look at all of the trains using the Longbridge to New St line - Cross City, local trains from Cardiff and Gloucester, Cross Country - all having to squeeze through the Five Ways tunnels and then trying to find a vacant platform. And that is replicated with the lines from Wolvo, Derby and Cov. The French, the Spanish and the Germans just got on with it and now high speed rail travel in those countries is a pleasure rather than a trial, and there’s more room for the little local trains to operate more efficiently. Down here in the SW we’re terrified of losing our railway line, even though it will never be electrified, but much more important is improving bus services, because the trains don’t go to many places. So yes, these things need to be looked at as well. Perhaps people are just going to have to accept that taxes may need to rise to provide funding.
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HS2
Feb 11, 2020 20:50:56 GMT
Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2020 20:50:56 GMT
Will, all those countries you state there are substantially geographically larger than the UK, high speed rail clearly is benefial over larger distances. I'd much rather see improved rail services here and now with that money so that commuters benefit and additional services in less fashionable places like the SW are implemented. Taxes absolutely do not need to rise, the civil service needs to start spending properly. HS2 is the epitome of public spending waste.
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HS2
Feb 11, 2020 21:24:29 GMT
Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2020 21:24:29 GMT
Will, all those countries you state there are substantially geographically larger than the UK, high speed rail clearly is benefial over larger distances. I'd much rather see improved rail services here and now with that money so that commuters benefit and additional services in less fashionable places like the SW are implemented. Taxes absolutely do not need to rise, the civil service needs to start spending properly. HS2 is the epitome of public spending waste. Fair enough. Tired of arguing - I’ve said my bit, leave it at that.
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HS2
Feb 12, 2020 9:26:01 GMT
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Post by monkeyman on Feb 12, 2020 9:26:01 GMT
Waste of money that could be used to improve public transport nationwide in a much shorter time period than HS2 will take to complete. I can see what you’re getting at bitf. But you have to admit that New Street is working above capacity at the moment - not in terms of passengers (even though it can be bedlam on the platforms) but in terms of trains using the station. If you just look at all of the trains using the Longbridge to New St line - Cross City, local trains from Cardiff and Gloucester, Cross Country - all having to squeeze through the Five Ways tunnels and then trying to find a vacant platform. And that is replicated with the lines from Wolvo, Derby and Cov. The French, the Spanish and the Germans just got on with it and now high speed rail travel in those countries is a pleasure rather than a trial, and there’s more room for the little local trains to operate more efficiently. Down here in the SW we’re terrified of losing our railway line, even though it will never be electrified, but much more important is improving bus services, because the trains don’t go to many places. So yes, these things need to be looked at as well. Perhaps people are just going to have to accept that taxes may need to rise to provide funding. You sure know a lot about the daily experience at New St for someone who rarely visits Brum...
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HS2
Feb 12, 2020 9:38:06 GMT
Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2020 9:38:06 GMT
I can see what you’re getting at bitf. But you have to admit that New Street is working above capacity at the moment - not in terms of passengers (even though it can be bedlam on the platforms) but in terms of trains using the station. If you just look at all of the trains using the Longbridge to New St line - Cross City, local trains from Cardiff and Gloucester, Cross Country - all having to squeeze through the Five Ways tunnels and then trying to find a vacant platform. And that is replicated with the lines from Wolvo, Derby and Cov. The French, the Spanish and the Germans just got on with it and now high speed rail travel in those countries is a pleasure rather than a trial, and there’s more room for the little local trains to operate more efficiently. Down here in the SW we’re terrified of losing our railway line, even though it will never be electrified, but much more important is improving bus services, because the trains don’t go to many places. So yes, these things need to be looked at as well. Perhaps people are just going to have to accept that taxes may need to rise to provide funding. You sure know a lot about the daily experience at New St for someone who rarely visits Brum... Like I said above, I’m tired of arguing on here, but whenever I do visit Brum, New St is often involved, and I have enough experience of sitting on trains stuck in the Five Ways tunnels and the bun fight that takes place when a train to Longbridge/Redditch appears on the platform to know that the place is bursting at the seams underneath all of those bright, shiny new shops and eateries. I don’t live in France, Germany and Spain neither, but I know their (state-run) railways have had a hell of a lot of investment and that they run far more efficiently than ours do. But I don’t care enough about HS2 to get into a “tit-for-tat” argument about its merits. HTH
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Feb 12, 2020 9:41:16 GMT
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Post by monkeyman on Feb 12, 2020 9:41:16 GMT
Lol. No tit for tat here, but I will add that basing your political opinions on your meagre personal experience is never a good starting point.
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Feb 12, 2020 9:50:24 GMT
Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2020 9:50:24 GMT
Lol. No tit for tat here, but I will add that basing your political opinions on your meagre personal experience is never a good starting point. If you say so. sigh
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Feb 12, 2020 10:25:59 GMT
Post by tonyhancock on Feb 12, 2020 10:25:59 GMT
Will, all those countries you state there are substantially geographically larger than the UK, high speed rail clearly is benefial over larger distances. I'd much rather see improved rail services here and now with that money so that commuters benefit and additional services in less fashionable places like the SW are implemented. Taxes absolutely do not need to rise, the civil service needs to start spending properly. HS2 is the epitome of public spending waste. A quick look reveals the cost has gone from 56,000,000,000.00 to 106,000,000,000.00. Not bad for a government forecast, but I expect that will go up. If Boris was using his own money, then no way on Earth would he go for it. It will never see a return as a profitable investment. As for the rest it depends upon whether you're "Don't spend other people's money on that, spend it on what suits me", or "Don't spend other people's money. Let the people who earned it decide what they spend it on, and the market will determine what projects go ahead". Which wouldn't be a fuc4ing bridge between Ireland & Scotland, either.
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HS2
Feb 12, 2020 10:33:33 GMT
Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2020 10:33:33 GMT
Which wouldn't be a fuc4ing bridge between Ireland & Scotland, either. Agreed, but that's the problem, too many 'natiotional' projetcs are vanity projects rather than what is actually required. If we really needed HS2 it should have been started in the North first to improve links there first.
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HS2
Feb 12, 2020 10:35:56 GMT
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Post by monkeyman on Feb 12, 2020 10:35:56 GMT
Which wouldn't be a fuc4ing bridge between Ireland & Scotland, either. Agreed, but that's the problem, too many 'natiotional' projetcs are vanity projects rather than what is actually required. If we really needed HS2 it should have been started in the North first to improve links there first. Hang on, you're actually being serious in an online political debate?!? I'm very disappointed in you, and Colonel Sanders feels the same!
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Feb 12, 2020 10:43:09 GMT
Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2020 10:43:09 GMT
Agreed, but that's the problem, too many 'natiotional' projetcs are vanity projects rather than what is actually required. If we really needed HS2 it should have been started in the North first to improve links there first. Hang on, you're actually being serious in an online political debate?!? I'm very disappointed in you, and Colonel Sanders feels the same! Sorry. I bet lord Adonis never gets fanny batter round his gob. Is that better?
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HS2
Feb 12, 2020 10:47:11 GMT
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Post by monkeyman on Feb 12, 2020 10:47:11 GMT
Hang on, you're actually being serious in an online political debate?!? I'm very disappointed in you, and Colonel Sanders feels the same! Sorry. I bet lord Adonis never gets fanny batter round his gob. Is that better? Much better!
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Feb 12, 2020 11:40:21 GMT
Post by tonyhancock on Feb 12, 2020 11:40:21 GMT
Which wouldn't be a fuc4ing bridge between Ireland & Scotland, either. Agreed, but that's the problem, too many 'natiotional' projetcs are vanity projects rather than what is actually required. If we really needed HS2 it should have been started in the North first to improve links there first. Would have been better. Then see how that went, with the option to cancel the rest.
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Feb 12, 2020 11:48:03 GMT
Post by tonyhancock on Feb 12, 2020 11:48:03 GMT
Sorry. I bet lord Adonis never gets fanny batter round his gob. Is that better? Much better! Lord Adonis - Who the fuc4 is he anyway ?
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Feb 13, 2020 21:20:57 GMT
Post by tonyhancock on Feb 13, 2020 21:20:57 GMT
I think it's been long enough to risk a possible thread change (?).
Maybe it's not about saving a relatively small amount of time, for the current users of rail.
Maybe it's about increasing capacity, because the government wants us plebs out of cars, and have (electric) motoring for the relatively rich only ?
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Feb 14, 2020 13:14:04 GMT
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Post by monkeyman on Feb 14, 2020 13:14:04 GMT
What I find more intriguing is that The Hamburglar was supposed to be the bad guy, but Ronald McDonald looked far more terrifying! How do you explain that?
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Feb 14, 2020 13:18:49 GMT
Post by tonyhancock on Feb 14, 2020 13:18:49 GMT
Do you know I'd not realised that. Well that's set in stone now. Every time I see either, I'm going to remember you. Then tell everyone for the zillionth time
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