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Post by thesauce16 on Apr 12, 2024 13:33:17 GMT
So, as I see it, if we do go down to league 1, the squad will be very different next year to this. I don’t see us throwing everyone away, and think Sanderson, Laird, Buchanan, Pritchard, Roberts and maybe Bacca will form part of next years team. Add in Longelo, Hall, Donovan and Chang who I also think will still be here.
My question is, to those who know better than me, are there anymore in the youth set up you think will be in and around it next year? The likes of Khela, Dixon, Mayo, Fogarty or others?
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Post by gammo on Apr 12, 2024 13:47:13 GMT
Shame we aren't safe as it would have been good to see a few of them in games this season.
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Post by dutchblue on Apr 12, 2024 13:56:49 GMT
If I think back over the last 2,3,4,5 decades, we have a pretty reasonable record (at least not terrible) of bringing in 16, 17, 18 year-olds through into the first team. Doesn’t seem to happen anymore.
Is that to do with the quality of the youngsters we have, the situation we are in, or the changing nature of the game, or elements of all these factors (and maybe more).
Genuine question for those who know the youth setup. I admit I know little or nothing about the kids these days. So I will be more than happy to be educated.
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Post by jazzzy786 on Apr 12, 2024 13:59:23 GMT
You know the likes of Bielik will want out as he did at Derby. We will have no keepers or strikers and lose Gardner, Roberts, Sunjic, Aiwu, Burke, Drameh, Dozzell and (most likely) James, Miyoshi, Paik. That is more or less most of the team. We will need players which are ready now and while a smattering of youngsters will be good enough at that level it is still a very competitive league. Tyler Roberts should be a beast in league 1 and score 20 goals.
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Post by thesauce16 on Apr 12, 2024 17:42:06 GMT
You know the likes of Bielik will want out as he did at Derby. We will have no keepers or strikers and lose Gardner, Roberts, Sunjic, Aiwu, Burke, Drameh, Dozzell and (most likely) James, Miyoshi, Paik. That is more or less most of the team. We will need players which are ready now and while a smattering of youngsters will be good enough at that level it is still a very competitive league. Tyler Roberts should be a beast in league 1 and score 20 goals. I agree with all that, hence why those I name dropped I think will be the ones left. They are under contract and I think the club will be able to resist offers. James, Bielik, Paik and Miyoshi will generate a few million, and we know we have money to spend without that. So I think signings will be plentiful. The trick will obviously be ensuring signings address the deficiencies of this season. The main question of this thread was do we have any youth ready to supplement? |
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Post by bubba on Apr 12, 2024 18:03:13 GMT
The main question of this thread was do we have any youth ready to supplement?
Maybe Fogarty but otherwise not really imo but bearing in mind I've seen most of them only a handful of times at most and several only once or not at all.
I still think Josh Williams has potential to be pretty decent, pimo thinks he's a bit crap and he's certainly had a wasted year where he couldn't even get on the pitch for one of the worst teams in the division.
Josh Home is classy, Kamara and Hamilton are a bit beasty with the former having an eye for goal but as said ad finitum it's such a step up to first team level. Even in div one, it wouldn't be like trying to break into a Wycombe or Shrewsbury first team but the division favourites gunning for the title and an instant return.
Donovan still the standout candidate and likely to get more opportunities next season in div one, otherwise I think we'll be mostly buying players to flesh out the squad rather than promoting from within.
The only thing I would say against all that is in my personal opinion despite having a pretty good season I actually think at least half and maybe more of the development squad will go and we'll be bringing in even better players, maybe even buying some and who knows how good some of them will be, so it's really a case of wait and see because I think there'll be 6,7 or 8 new youngsters signed for the U-21s, Knighthead won't be waiting for us to get up to the prem or even back to the championship to be driving excellence at the youth and U-21 levels.
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Post by bignumbernine on Apr 12, 2024 18:34:17 GMT
Josh Williams is a very curious one.
While he was very raw in that run of first team games he had, there was real promise there. He’s got a good motor, can take on a man and get a cross in. Not sure where it’s all gone wrong for him but it’s a shame. Maybe he needs to leave to save his career like Josh Dacres-Cogley did.
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Post by cnote on Apr 12, 2024 19:08:03 GMT
The main question of this thread was do we have any youth ready to supplement?
Maybe Fogarty but otherwise not really imo but bearing in mind I've seen most of them only a handful of times at most and several only once or not at all.
I still think Josh Williams has potential to be pretty decent, pimo thinks he's a bit crap and he's certainly had a wasted year where he couldn't even get on the pitch for one of the worst teams in the division.
Josh Home is classy, Kamara and Hamilton are a bit beasty with the former having an eye for goal but as said ad finitum it's such a step up to first team level. Even in div one, it wouldn't be like trying to break into a Wycombe or Shrewsbury first team but the division favourites gunning for the title and an instant return.
Donovan still the standout candidate and likely to get more opportunities next season in div one, otherwise I think we'll be mostly buying players to flesh out the squad rather than promoting from within.
The only thing I would say against all that is in my personal opinion despite having a pretty good season I actually think at least half and maybe more of the development squad will go and we'll be bringing in even better players, maybe even buying some and who knows how good some of them will be, so it's really a case of wait and see because I think there'll be 6,7 or 8 new youngsters signed for the U-21s, Knighthead won't be waiting for us to get up to the prem or even back to the championship to be driving excellence at the youth and U-21 levels.
Riggs, will want to show us why he was given the job so I expect to see several players signed for the youth teams. It’s going to be a bit congested since we’ve given all the under 18’s their first professional contracts. Think some under 23’s will be released and I suspect Josh Williams, will be one of them. |
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Post by bubba on Apr 12, 2024 19:34:08 GMT
Josh Williams has a contract that still has 2 years to run so I doubt it.
The U-18s half of them will still be with the U-18s next season regardless of being given contracts, but yeah it's still gong to mean quite a few more 2nd year scholars stepping up than is usually the case although I don't expect that will slow down the recruitmet, we'll either just carry a bigger U-21 squad or send more out on loan, all imo of course.
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Post by sapfo on Apr 12, 2024 21:18:05 GMT
Riggs has been all over the academy assessing what we’ve got in the production lines.
My personal gripe is the strikers are not getting specialist coaching, and are not getting enough repetition practice with regards to finishing. One lad went in Good Friday on his own to practice. You don’t send a sniper into battle who has not served his time on the range do you?
That probably goes for the defenders too. we just seem to produce midfielders. Start giving the defenders and the forwards the correct tools to reach their potential. I know we was in a shit state, but Gray had so many flaws in his game that could have been coached out, and could have been so much better than he was.
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Post by bignumbernine on Apr 12, 2024 21:28:51 GMT
Riggs has been all over the academy assessing what we’ve got in the production lines. My personal gripe is the strikers are not getting specialist coaching, and are not getting enough repetition practice with regards to finishing. One lad went in Good Friday on his own to practice. You don’t send a sniper into battle who has not served his time on the range do you? That probably goes for the defenders too. we just seem to produce midfielders. Start giving the defenders and the forwards the correct tools to reach their potential. I know we was in a shit state, but Gray had so many flaws in his game that could have been coached out, and could have been so much better than he was. That’s really interesting to hear. In your opinion, why have we been quite good at developing midfielders then? Is it something about the setup or luck? |
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Post by gammo on Apr 12, 2024 21:51:54 GMT
Is it because some kids feel that it is a 'safe role' to get into the wealth of football? By that, I mean being a defender it's your responsibility not to concede goals, and as a striker, it's your responsibility to score goals - not so much risk being in the middle of the team surrounded by others.
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Post by cnote on Apr 12, 2024 22:18:31 GMT
Josh Williams has a contract that still has 2 years to run so I doubt it.
The U-18s half of them will still be with the U-18s next season regardless of being given contracts, but yeah it's still gong to mean quite a few more 2nd year scholars stepping up than is usually the case although I don't expect that will slow down the recruitmet, we'll either just carry a bigger U-21 squad or send more out on loan, all imo of course.
At this stage we could do with another feeder club to help us get the best out of these youth players. Sulihull Moors, are sort of a feeder club but could we do with one at the next level down? |
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Post by dutchblue on Apr 13, 2024 4:05:53 GMT
Josh Williams has a contract that still has 2 years to run so I doubt it.
The U-18s half of them will still be with the U-18s next season regardless of being given contracts, but yeah it's still gong to mean quite a few more 2nd year scholars stepping up than is usually the case although I don't expect that will slow down the recruitmet, we'll either just carry a bigger U-21 squad or send more out on loan, all imo of course.
At this stage we could do with another feeder club to help us get the best out of these youth players. Sulihull Moors, are sort of a feeder club but could we do with one at the next level down? We could do with widening our scope and buying a European club as a feeder. I feel sure that must be a considered option going forwards. |
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Post by sapfo on Apr 13, 2024 5:30:17 GMT
Josh Williams has a contract that still has 2 years to run so I doubt it.
The U-18s half of them will still be with the U-18s next season regardless of being given contracts, but yeah it's still gong to mean quite a few more 2nd year scholars stepping up than is usually the case although I don't expect that will slow down the recruitmet, we'll either just carry a bigger U-21 squad or send more out on loan, all imo of course.
At this stage we could do with another feeder club to help us get the best out of these youth players. Sulihull Moors, are sort of a feeder club but could we do with one at the next level down? Alvechurch are literally only next door. Hairy arsed men’s football at a decent level. They would have to play out way and we could slip the youth into competitive football. |
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Post by sapfo on Apr 13, 2024 5:41:43 GMT
Riggs has been all over the academy assessing what we’ve got in the production lines. My personal gripe is the strikers are not getting specialist coaching, and are not getting enough repetition practice with regards to finishing. One lad went in Good Friday on his own to practice. You don’t send a sniper into battle who has not served his time on the range do you? That probably goes for the defenders too. we just seem to produce midfielders. Start giving the defenders and the forwards the correct tools to reach their potential. I know we was in a shit state, but Gray had so many flaws in his game that could have been coached out, and could have been so much better than he was. That’s really interesting to hear. In your opinion, why have we been quite good at developing midfielders then? Is it something about the setup or luck? I think the coaching is more geared towards general football as opposed to more position specialism, and that’s down to resources available. I’ll give you a comparison. 16s played Dogheads recently. They had a coach for the Def, Mids, and Forards pre-match and during the game. They had 3 coaches on opposite side to their manager talking their boys through the game, just flicking little switches on in their heads mid-game and you could see them improving. Miind you we beat them 3-2., and other than the 2 new CB’s we ain’t a big side. We have a Jude look alike in CM who’s decent. Everyone’s gonna think there’s a 3rd Bellingham. You’ll see. Look what Beatie done for Juke & Che. Just dig out an ex-pro striker and let him do sessions with the attackers. So simple to fix. |
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Post by cnote on Apr 13, 2024 6:25:36 GMT
At this stage we could do with another feeder club to help us get the best out of these youth players. Sulihull Moors, are sort of a feeder club but could we do with one at the next level down? Alvechurch are literally only next door. Hairy arsed men’s football at a decent level. They would have to play out way and we could slip the youth into competitive football. The pitch at Alvechurch, is really poor for that level of football. I suppose with their proposed move next to Wast Hills, they probably don’t feel the need to lay another pitch. The owner is said to be a blues, fan so I’m sure he’d be keen to get something going. Bromsgrove Sporting, and Redditch should also be considered. |
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Post by bubba on Apr 13, 2024 9:50:24 GMT
Look what Beatie done for Juke & Che.
This got me thinking. Now don't misunderstand me, got absolutely no issue wth the general points you are making but in reference to Beattie specifically it's part of blues folklore that he almost single handedly turned Che into a 15 million pound striker and I've offten wondered just how true is that?
What I do know is Che was always a talented player, I remember watching him score 2 against a strong spurs side when he was at then first division Sheff Utd to dump spurs out of one of the cups. We paid a couple of million for him, a far from insignifiant sum for a division one striker.
Donaldson was still reigning supreme in Rowett's 4-2-3-1 side and we had about another 5 strikers including Juke and Che (I know hard to believe the riches looking back now) and Che joined in the season Rowett was sacked and zola had his nightmare period here.
So Beattie alongside Monk was the first time the talented 2 million acquisition Che got a real chance (Donaldon left the club that Summer) and without a doubt he and Juke really hit it off but I have to say I do wonder if the whole supposed James Beattie turnround of Che Adams was more than a little overhyped. To add to that has Beattie ever gone into any other club (he's had quite a few) and had a similar kind of 'impact' on a striker there? I don't know the answer, but I can't say as anything springs to mind either, which again does make me question just how much of Che's rise was down to Beattie/Monk and how much to Che himself.
Anyway as said, not knocking your point, think it's more than fair, just musing on the almost legendary status that Beattie holds among many blues for his alleged Che contribution, I'm just a tad dubious, well more than a tad.
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Post by jazzzy786 on Apr 13, 2024 10:01:09 GMT
You know the likes of Bielik will want out as he did at Derby. We will have no keepers or strikers and lose Gardner, Roberts, Sunjic, Aiwu, Burke, Drameh, Dozzell and (most likely) James, Miyoshi, Paik. That is more or less most of the team. We will need players which are ready now and while a smattering of youngsters will be good enough at that level it is still a very competitive league. Tyler Roberts should be a beast in league 1 and score 20 goals. I agree with all that, hence why those I name dropped I think will be the ones left. They are under contract and I think the club will be able to resist offers. James, Bielik, Paik and Miyoshi will generate a few million, and we know we have money to spend without that. So I think signings will be plentiful. The trick will obviously be ensuring signings address the deficiencies of this season. The main question of this thread was do we have any youth ready to supplement? We do have the likes of Home, Fogarty, Donovan and Dixon and I hear Mayo is good but they are good at youth level and untested at hairy arse level. So are they ready to supplement? They've not played mens football so will need bedding in and it's a bit of a step up from what they're used to. Some may indeed make the step up while others need more time or never make it. |
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Post by bignumbernine on Apr 13, 2024 10:19:34 GMT
I’m all-in on Donovan as a prospect. Was really impressed with his appearances off the bench this season - which is why it is disappointing that he has disappeared. Next season he should be playing regularly, in my opinion.
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Post by mrbluesky on Apr 13, 2024 10:34:53 GMT
I don't go with the kids need lower league experience theory. There have been plenty who have come into various first teams and done well. It's the old " if there good enough" theory. I accept that some may need to go out to evolve but many more will thrive if given a chance in the first team.
We have a few already who I believe can step up Chang and Donovan for starters. I remind people that TF was only 16 when someone put him in the team and look how that worked out.
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Post by blueinblack on Apr 13, 2024 11:27:54 GMT
I don't go with the kids need lower league experience theory. There have been plenty who have come into various first teams and done well. It's the old " if there good enough" theory. I accept that some may need to go out to evolve but many more will thrive if given a chance in the first team. We have a few already who I believe can step up Chang and Donovan for starters. I remind people that TF was only 16 when someone put him in the team and look how that worked out. ^This. I don’t get the idea that someone can look at a player and say he’s not ready. Not ready for what? I coach at men’s level as well as youth. I’ve fed two players into a step 5 club. Neither gets a look in and the team is full of 30 year olds who have played for X,Y and Z. I don’t give a flying fcuk who they’ve played for. At 30, they’re still at step 5, which should tell you something. If we aren’t going to play the likes of Donovan and Dixon, get rid of them. If you look where we are in the league, I can only point to the quote on stupidity and trying the same thing again and again and expecting a different result. Look at Harry Kane. He was on loan at Orient, Leicester and Norwich. He never got a mention and there’s the famous picture of him and Vardy on the bench for Leicester in League 1. His break was two fold. One, Spurs spent the Bale money on shite players like Soldado. They failed and Sherwood, be it forced or had the hindsight, threw in Kane. Problem with football is the egos of managers. They won’t risk their jobs by trusting young players and that’s at any level. The other is the expectations of fans. |
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Post by jazzzy786 on Apr 13, 2024 11:30:43 GMT
I don't go with the kids need lower league experience theory. There have been plenty who have come into various first teams and done well. It's the old " if there good enough" theory. I accept that some may need to go out to evolve but many more will thrive if given a chance in the first team. We have a few already who I believe can step up Chang and Donovan for starters. I remind people that TF was only 16 when someone put him in the team and look how that worked out. It is the classic "Can he swim?". When you aren't scoring goals and you have a Dixon scoring regularly then that cry becomes "Give him a chance. What have you got to lose?". Normally I'm with you but I do think we need leaders on the pitch and that's where battle hardened experience should make up your key positions. Mowbray is very good at bringing through youth and that is where I am optimistic that he can mould a good team utilising our youngsters effectively. |
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Post by TILTON on Apr 13, 2024 12:02:30 GMT
My son shuts me down when I talk about all the variables over next few weeks.
I don't think he's ready for Lincoln on a Tuesday night!
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