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Post by tonyhancock on Nov 29, 2021 20:06:31 GMT
If you don’t agree with injections fine that’s your perogative. What I don’t understand is the preaching about not wearing masks either Feels counter intuitive. If it's stopped at masks, it won't get to jabs. Don't worry, you are not Spartacus
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Post by choc on Nov 29, 2021 21:26:04 GMT
The bloke was saying," You're breaking the law" but,they wouldn't serve them. If he has the time,he should sue. I believe others have successfully done so.For me it's gone past the jab, in and of itself, now. It is looking increasingly likely, the jab will be mandated. If this is the case, it should sweep away any illusions, any of us have, that we live in a free country. It will prove beyond all doubt, the government owns us, bodily. The nation has another chance. Please don't wear the masks. I would like to see examples of that. Any shop owner has the right to refuse entry to their shop. Try and take them to court but I think you would probably be picking up the tab for all the lawyers involved.😭
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2021 11:27:06 GMT
If you don’t agree with injections fine that’s your perogative. What I don’t understand is the preaching about not wearing masks either Feels counter intuitive. If it's stopped at masks, it won't get to jabs. Don't worry, you are not Spartacus Do you also get furious at having to wear a seat belt and driving at a designated limit?
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Post by tonyhancock on Nov 30, 2021 14:41:36 GMT
If it's stopped at masks, it won't get to jabs. Don't worry, you are not Spartacus Do you also get furious at having to wear a seat belt and driving at a designated limit? I'm sorry. I'm not interested in debating nonsense. If I heard correctly, we are now at "You must wear a mask in the supermarket, but you don't need one in the pub" There's no point whatsoever in discussing the matter, with anyone who can't see anything amiss. My brain just doesn't work that way. I genuinely can't imagine how anyone could think this makes sense.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2021 15:25:01 GMT
Do you also get furious at having to wear a seat belt and driving at a designated limit? I'm sorry. I'm not interested in debating nonsense. If I heard correctly, we are now at "You must wear a mask in the supermarket, but you don't need one in the pub" There's no point whatsoever in discussing the matter, with anyone who can't see anything amiss. My brain just doesn't work that way. I genuinely can't imagine how anyone could think this makes sense. Whilst i dont rate this government and in no way arguing in defence of them.... i accept that there is a vast difference between Solid scientific health advice vs government policy. You only need to see how the Tory backbenchers have wetted their beds today to the prospect of wearing masks- to see government strategy is doing the absolute bare minimum in terms of restriction they can get away with- thus why you get the maddening inconsistencies as it isnt just a health play here. The JCVI and the health security agency are saying people need to minimise contact, dont socialise, and if you do do it outdoors etc. That all makes alot of sense. But ill ask again. given you are sitting there in your tin foil hat so scared of the government controlling us all by stealth. Are you 1) furious about them proroguing parliament - a clear sign of a goverment trying to avoid the checks and balances 2) also annoyed about other government advice like driving to a speed limit and wearing a seat belt. I mean thats an in fringement of your liberties is it not?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2021 15:38:50 GMT
Apparently from January,all unvaccinated,over 60's in Greece will be fined £100 a month. It will be taken directly from their pensions.
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Post by tonyhancock on Nov 30, 2021 15:49:46 GMT
I'm sorry. I'm not interested in debating nonsense. If I heard correctly, we are now at "You must wear a mask in the supermarket, but you don't need one in the pub" There's no point whatsoever in discussing the matter, with anyone who can't see anything amiss. My brain just doesn't work that way. I genuinely can't imagine how anyone could think this makes sense. Whilst i dont rate this government and in no way arguing in defence of them.... i accept that there is a vast difference between Solid scientific health advice vs government policy. You only need to see how the Tory backbenchers have wetted their beds today to the prospect of wearing masks- to see government strategy is doing the absolute bare minimum in terms of restriction they can get away with- thus why you get the maddening inconsistencies as it isnt just a health play here. The JCVI and the health security agency are saying people need to minimise contact, dont socialise, and if you do do it outdoors etc. That all makes alot of sense. But ill ask again. given you are sitting there in your tin foil hat so scared of the government controlling us all by stealth. Are you 1) furious about them proroguing parliament - a clear sign of a goverment trying to avoid the checks and balances 2) also annoyed about other government advice like driving to a speed limit and wearing a seat belt. I mean thats an in fringement of your liberties is it not? Are you going to wear a mask ?
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Post by tonyhancock on Nov 30, 2021 15:51:21 GMT
Apparently from January,all unvaccinated,over 60's in Greece will be fined £100 a month. It will be taken directly from their pensions. This is why things should be nipped in the bud. There is no way these covid apps are going to be for covid only, long term. Maybe not even covid at all
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2021 16:14:15 GMT
Whilst i dont rate this government and in no way arguing in defence of them.... i accept that there is a vast difference between Solid scientific health advice vs government policy. You only need to see how the Tory backbenchers have wetted their beds today to the prospect of wearing masks- to see government strategy is doing the absolute bare minimum in terms of restriction they can get away with- thus why you get the maddening inconsistencies as it isnt just a health play here. The JCVI and the health security agency are saying people need to minimise contact, dont socialise, and if you do do it outdoors etc. That all makes alot of sense. But ill ask again. given you are sitting there in your tin foil hat so scared of the government controlling us all by stealth. Are you 1) furious about them proroguing parliament - a clear sign of a goverment trying to avoid the checks and balances 2) also annoyed about other government advice like driving to a speed limit and wearing a seat belt. I mean thats an in fringement of your liberties is it not? Are you going to wear a mask ? Yep- dont see why not. I can tolerate wearing one in a shop and feels like a pragmatic way to avoid the spread of a virus if i can. Bit like wearing a seat belt in a car might help stop me injuring myself
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Post by tonyhancock on Nov 30, 2021 16:41:59 GMT
Are you going to wear a mask ? Yep- dont see why not. I can tolerate wearing one in a shop and feels like a pragmatic way to avoid the spread of a virus if i can. Bit like wearing a seat belt in a car might help stop me injuring myself You'll be wearing one in the pub, too then, and anywhere else not yet mandated ?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2021 18:50:10 GMT
If the people I’m with want me to wear one or a place where it makes sense absolutely
I wore one back on a busy train back from blues last week, and also on the underground and train when travelling to London with work. At my kids school they prefer if we wear one on drop off and have no issues with that
You still haven’t answered my questions?
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Post by choc on Nov 30, 2021 20:15:52 GMT
Do you also get furious at having to wear a seat belt and driving at a designated limit? I'm sorry. I'm not interested in debating nonsense. If I heard correctly, we are now at "You must wear a mask in the supermarket, but you don't need one in the pub"There's no point whatsoever in discussing the matter, with anyone who can't see anything amiss. My brain just doesn't work that way. I genuinely can't imagine how anyone could think this makes sense. The way I see it is folks have to go to a supermarket or travel to work on a train or bus but they don't have to go to a pub. I can't stand masks but I will wear one, even in the pub if it gets me through the door.🍻
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2021 22:57:21 GMT
For the sake of other people feeling safe I’ll wear a mask in certain settings.
I think there’s inconsistencies, I was in the office today and could sit in one of the meeting rooms with 12 people but building owner has asked people to wear them in communal areas like walking down the stairs.
I used my common sense and walked down the stairs at lunchtime unmasked because I think that’s ridiculous considering I had an hour meeting with 4 other people. The meeting was a bigger risk but heaven forbid I walk past someone for 3 seconds on the stairs.
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Post by tonyhancock on Nov 30, 2021 23:17:43 GMT
This is what I mean. I don't have time for 'the rules are wear them in supermarkets, but not in pubs, so that's what I'll do'. Or if requested, or not if it's not really worth it, I won't. This sort of mentality is a waste of my time. If these rules don't get your noggin joggin, there's nothing I can say which will make you give it any thought. The amount I've written on my view on this forum, could make a book. There should be everything you need to know about what I think on this thread. I can't be arsed to keep repeating myself. By all means guys, carry on. Follow the rules. 'There's no point whatsoever in discussing the matter, with anyone who can't see anything amiss. My brain just doesn't work that way. I genuinely can't imagine how anyone could think this makes sense' Unless you genuinely think I have a tin foil hat on, and you're trying to get me to take it off for my benefit, then it's a waste of your time, too. “If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”
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Post by bubba on Nov 30, 2021 23:21:29 GMT
Whenever something clearly ridiculous, outrageous or just plain old contradictory is put out there for the masses to digest, I always imagine a group of old men in £10,000 suits choking back Havana's and asking each other "Do you really think they'll go for this?" as they laugh themselves close to a stroke.
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Post by tonyhancock on Nov 30, 2021 23:40:34 GMT
Whenever something clearly ridiculous, outrageous or just plain old contradictory is put out there for the masses to digest, I always imagine a group of old men in £10,000 suits choking back Havana's and asking each other "Do you really think they'll go for this?" as they laugh themselves close to a stroke. I think it's much worse than that. Funny as they may find the results, I don't think the purpose is a piss take, for piss take's sake. I think it's a test. If it was super duper important to wear a mask, there would be no exceptions. Regardless of purpose of enclosed location, medical condition, political protest, foreign VIPs or whether someone is eating. The main purpose of throwing in a makes no sense exception / piss take, is to see what the public will put up with / buy. If we fail as a nation, regarding this latest nonsense, then further dictates will come thick and fast. I fear the worst. I'm actually expecting it. The way it looks to me, the British will accept subjugation with a whimper, rather than the dying roar of a lion. Still I hope.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2021 6:01:06 GMT
So I’ll ask again because you seem to be adept at avoiding answering it…assuming you believe it’s all one big conspiracy
1) were you furious about the government proroguing parliament last year? Surely that’s the ultimate confirmation of a ruling group taking the piss?
2) do you also object to things like having to drive at 30mins on one road but literally down the next you can drive at 60mph?
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Post by tonyhancock on Dec 1, 2021 12:06:02 GMT
So I’ll ask again because you seem to be adept at avoiding answering it…assuming you believe it’s all one big conspiracy 1) were you furious about the government proroguing parliament last year? Surely that’s the ultimate confirmation of a ruling group taking the piss? 2) do you also object to things like having to drive at 30mins on one road but literally down the next you can drive at 60mph? You began your questions with : But ill ask again. given you are sitting there in your tin foil hat so scared of the government controlling us all by stealth. If that's what you think, why bother asking ? 1. My views on parliament have been stated over and over for about a year and a half. 2. I feel this is a pathetic attempt to change the subject. I've read what you think. We are simply not going to see eye to eye on this one, and I'm feb up of repeating myself, to the same group of people. My views are laid out, with some detail. On a side note - has anyone seen my 'Papers please' thread ?
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Post by Will on Dec 1, 2021 12:28:02 GMT
So I’ll ask again because you seem to be adept at avoiding answering it…assuming you believe it’s all one big conspiracy 1) were you furious about the government proroguing parliament last year? Surely that’s the ultimate confirmation of a ruling group taking the piss? 2) do you also object to things like having to drive at 30mins on one road but literally down the next you can drive at 60mph? You began your questions with : But ill ask again. given you are sitting there in your tin foil hat so scared of the government controlling us all by stealth. If that's what you think, why bother asking ? 1. My views on parliament have been stated over and over for about a year and a half. 2. A. I feel this is a pathetic attempt to change the subject.
I've read what you think. We are simply not going to see eye to eye on this one, and B. I'm fed up of repeating myself, to the same group of people. My views are laid out, with some detail. On a side note - has anyone seen my 'Papers please' thread ? A. A pathetic attempt to avoid a very reasonable question. B. If only!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2021 12:49:37 GMT
So I’ll ask again because you seem to be adept at avoiding answering it…assuming you believe it’s all one big conspiracy 1) were you furious about the government proroguing parliament last year? Surely that’s the ultimate confirmation of a ruling group taking the piss? 2) do you also object to things like having to drive at 30mins on one road but literally down the next you can drive at 60mph? You began your questions with : But ill ask again. given you are sitting there in your tin foil hat so scared of the government controlling us all by stealth. If that's what you think, why bother asking ? 1. My views on parliament have been stated over and over for about a year and a half. 2. I feel this is a pathetic attempt to change the subject. I've read what you think. We are simply not going to see eye to eye on this one, and I'm feb up of repeating myself, to the same group of people. My views are laid out, with some detail. On a side note - has anyone seen my 'Papers please' thread ? great so you have avoided giving a direct answer to either of these 2 simple questions then. Says alot
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Post by Will on Dec 1, 2021 13:01:54 GMT
You began your questions with : But ill ask again. given you are sitting there in your tin foil hat so scared of the government controlling us all by stealth. If that's what you think, why bother asking ? 1. My views on parliament have been stated over and over for about a year and a half. 2. I feel this is a pathetic attempt to change the subject. I've read what you think. We are simply not going to see eye to eye on this one, and I'm feb up of repeating myself, to the same group of people. My views are laid out, with some detail. On a side note - has anyone seen my 'Papers please' thread ? great so you have avoided giving a direct answer to either of these 2 simple questions then. Says alot Time for reasonable people like thee and me BN to leave the conversation and allow him to carry on his arguing in an empty room - I'm sure he's had plenty of experience at doing just that.
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Post by tonyhancock on Dec 1, 2021 13:16:17 GMT
You began your questions with : But ill ask again. given you are sitting there in your tin foil hat so scared of the government controlling us all by stealth. If that's what you think, why bother asking ? 1. My views on parliament have been stated over and over for about a year and a half. 2. I feel this is a pathetic attempt to change the subject. I've read what you think. We are simply not going to see eye to eye on this one, and I'm feb up of repeating myself, to the same group of people. My views are laid out, with some detail. On a side note - has anyone seen my 'Papers please' thread ? great so you have avoided giving a direct answer to either of these 2 simple questions then. Says alot What is the relevance of your questions ? What do you hope to gain from talking to someone you imagine is wearing a tin foil hat ? I'm not sure what you're asking in the first question, but I doubt it's relevant. In any case, my thoughts on those in Westminster should be clear. No I don't think it's a good idea to drive dangerously. I don't feel this is relevant, feel you've plucked this out of your arse to change the subject, and won't be commenting further.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2021 14:24:31 GMT
What is the relevance? Well talking to someone who believes there is some grand master plan by a greater power to control the plebecite- i would absolutely say they are relevant
What do i hope to gain- well me personally i find conspiracy theories interesting. so call it intrigue and trying to understand more.
Re question 1 - why is it not relevant? If i was really really worried about the powers that be exerting control then i would be furious about things like prorogation and them banning the right to protest.
re question 2 - whi is it not relevant? This is guidance and law making from the government on how we lead our lives? many years ago we used to not have to wear a seat belt in a car...now we do. many years ago we could drive on motorways at 70mph and now they have variable speed limits. Surely the comparison to government setting rules and laws about how we lead our lives in respect or Covid are similar
or are we allowed to pick and choose when our conspiracy theories kick in.
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Post by tonyhancock on Dec 1, 2021 15:05:15 GMT
OK. If you didn't get it, this is a thread about vaccines being mandated. Masks are a step towards that mandate, and so are relevant.
Also, I really don't get the impression you're trying to understand where I'm coming from. Heaven knows I've gone into enough detail over the last 18 months. I get the impression you just want to argue. But if you are trying to understand, you won't. The impression I have is, you are happy that perfectly healthy people, who blatantly were not killed by covid, should be included in covid death figures. I understand you are fine with wearing a mask in a supermarket, to do your bit, but don't feel it's necessary in a pub. This is what I'm getting from your answers, and things like this. Our mentalities are miles apart. I don't think it's of any benefit to argue, for that's what it will be, or fall out.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2021 17:00:18 GMT
Sorry not my intention at all to just argue.
Im genuinely interested to understand "your mentality" and the conspiracy theories you believe in, and the reasoning behind them.
thats not to say we have to agree, or fall out
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Post by tonyhancock on Dec 1, 2021 17:22:32 GMT
Sorry not my intention at all to just argue. Im genuinely interested to understand "your mentality" and the conspiracy theories you believe in, and the reasoning behind them. thats not to say we have to agree, or fall out That's nice. Do you belong to any religion ?
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Post by choc on Dec 1, 2021 17:25:23 GMT
What is the relevance? Well talking to someone who believes there is some grand master plan by a greater power to control the plebecite- i would absolutely say they are relevant What do i hope to gain- well me personally i find conspiracy theories interesting. so call it intrigue and trying to understand more. Re question 1 - why is it not relevant? If i was really really worried about the powers that be exerting control then i would be furious about things like prorogation and them banning the right to protest. re question 2 - whi is it not relevant? This is guidance and law making from the government on how we lead our lives? many years ago we used to not have to wear a seat belt in a car...now we do. many years ago we could drive on motorways at 70mph and now they have variable speed limits. Surely the comparison to government setting rules and laws about how we lead our lives in respect or Covid are similar or are we allowed to pick and choose when our conspiracy theories kick in. I think this is the way things have been going for a long time now
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2021 17:25:23 GMT
Nope. Grew up in CofE school/family but would say im agnostic on a good day, atheist on a bad one....
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Post by tonyhancock on Dec 1, 2021 17:46:23 GMT
Nope. Grew up in CofE school/family but would say im agnostic on a good day, atheist on a bad one.... Then you never know your luck. I warn you though, if you did understand, it wouldn't make you happy. Erm, think of coming out of the matrix, not that I think we're all in battery cells. To actually understand, you'd be shaken to your core, your life would be turned upside down. This isn't like trying to understand people who think rhino horn, will give them a great erection. Something you could get to the bottom of, without it affecting you. There isn't anyone on here who knows the half of it, but just imagine what it would be like, to worry about the things I worry about. It's a long journey. It needs something to start you off. It doesn't matter if it's something current, or something which happened hundreds of years ago. Something you never gave much thought to, just assumed it was right. Something which lurks in the corner of your mind's eye, deep in the subconscious. Then, probably by accident, you'll come across something which will trigger, and you'll start asking questions. You won't like the answers.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2021 18:48:33 GMT
Sounds like a trailer to a great film Tony.
My answer to the questions set by bn68:
1) wrong to prorogue parliament, although the brexit votes where at deadlock. Election should have been called.
2) seatbelts have a tangible effect, masks do but not to the same extent and it’s not really measurable. As for speed limits I find some of them ludicrous, 30mph on the dual carriageway Bristol Road yet 40mph on the dual carriageways in Quinton where’s there’s cars parked on the road and National Speed Limit through the lanes from Wast Hills to Wyhtall. 2 are far too fast fit the type of road and the other is far slower than it should be. That’s more down to our hopeless local authority but I digress.
Anyway WHO currently stance on latest variant, it’s more transmissible less deadly (no reported deaths yet) and the vaccines are effective against it.
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