|
Post by jazzzy786 on Nov 15, 2023 22:20:10 GMT
OK. You tell me what you were on about "I find your comments to me actually quite offensive when you know nothing of my background or family history" Actually Tony I don't know why you are getting involved with a disagreement between me and Jazzzy. It has nothing to do with our government lines. You need to read above. We were talking about countries supplying arms which can then end up in the wrong hands. Jaz said "You are being very selective about your "Lest we forget". Where that came from I don't know and that is what pissed me off. My Mrs organises remembrance Sunday every year in a particular bromsgrove parish. We also attend. I always wear the poppy. All this has nothing to do with government lines or the rest of my family. I was talking about the soldiers who died in the Falklands. I have seen the devestation that has brought to their families. I haven't forgotten Israel supplied the weapons that killed them. You referred to these weapons as a mere business decision. I am appalled at all loss of life of innocent people and I make that clear in my very first post on the Hamas attack but my taxes are not paying for their weapons when our Government is providing weapons for Israel to kill babies.
|
|
|
Post by choc on Nov 15, 2023 23:56:43 GMT
Actually Tony I don't know why you are getting involved with a disagreement between me and Jazzzy. It has nothing to do with our government lines. You need to read above. We were talking about countries supplying arms which can then end up in the wrong hands. Jaz said "You are being very selective about your "Lest we forget". Where that came from I don't know and that is what pissed me off. My Mrs organises remembrance Sunday every year in a particular bromsgrove parish. We also attend. I always wear the poppy. All this has nothing to do with government lines or the rest of my family. I was talking about the soldiers who died in the Falklands. I have seen the devestation that has brought to their families. I haven't forgotten Israel supplied the weapons that killed them. You referred to these weapons as a mere business decision. I am appalled at all loss of life of innocent people and I make that clear in my very first post on the Hamas attack but my taxes are not paying for their weapons when our Government is providing weapons for Israel to kill babies. I agree with most of the above but your "Lest we forget" comment towards me was out of order. The 'business' comment by me was followed by disagreement with it all. Where do hamas get their weapons from to kill and burn Israeli babies. The war is terrible but unfortunately the innocent die in wars. Folks who are protesting about the Israeli response as not 'proportional' well can someone tell me what would be a proportional response to the 7th of October declaration or war?
|
|
|
Post by Sammy Wren on Nov 16, 2023 13:20:31 GMT
I see a protester was on a war memorial again last night, these people piss me off along with the MET staff who continually do nothing as their told to do nothing. Now imagine a mosque or syn agog being used in this way, its fcuking out of order and insults me massively, that idiot who leads the MET needs sacking, but will he get a grip of it, no, fecking cowardly lemon.
|
|
|
Post by tonyhancock on Nov 16, 2023 14:33:44 GMT
I see a protester was on a war memorial again last night, these people piss me off along with the MET staff who continually do nothing as their told to do nothing. Now imagine a mosque or syn agog being used in this way, its fcuking out of order and insults me massively, that idiot who leads the MET needs sacking, but will he get a grip of it, no, fecking cowardly lemon. Have you ever wondered what these idiots are trying to achieve ? Because I have no idea. What they are doing is: Pissing people off who might have had sympathies for THEIR people Alienating the British Clearly demonstrating that THEY ARE FOREIGNERS, and having a British passport and a right to services (and voting) DOES NOT MAKE THEM BRITISH
|
|
|
Post by jazzzy786 on Nov 16, 2023 16:35:34 GMT
I was talking about the soldiers who died in the Falklands. I have seen the devestation that has brought to their families. I haven't forgotten Israel supplied the weapons that killed them. You referred to these weapons as a mere business decision. I am appalled at all loss of life of innocent people and I make that clear in my very first post on the Hamas attack but my taxes are not paying for their weapons when our Government is providing weapons for Israel to kill babies. I agree with most of the above but your "Lest we forget" comment towards me was out of order. The 'business' comment by me was followed by disagreement with it all. Where do hamas get their weapons from to kill and burn Israeli babies. The war is terrible but unfortunately the innocent die in wars. Folks who are protesting about the Israeli response as not 'proportional' well can someone tell me what would be a proportional response to the 7th of October declaration or war? I got the impression you were cheapening those lost lives with your comment. Who knows where Hamas gets their weapons from. Probably the USA. Who may be playing both sides. I was watching something about the British soldiers who were forced to watch nuclear explosions in the line of duty and are referred to as the guinea pigs. Most of them are dead and have died in agony with cancer. Our Government is refusing to pay their families compensation quoting lack of evidence. We may love our country but our country certainly doesn't love us. I look at the Hamas attack and ask what triggered it and how did they get through borders which have the highest security and best intelligence in the world. I don't trust Israel at all and America will back them in everything they say. Proportional response? What is the currency rate of Palestinians per Israeli? The latest weapons haul they've recovered from below the hospital (the headquarters of Hamas (!!)) contained about 10 semi automatic rifles. Hospital staff are saying it belongs to the hospital security police. It's hardly the arsenal of a headquarters. If you are gonna lie at least be consistent - "We didn't bomb the hospital", "Hamas is storing weapons under hospitals so they are no longer protected under the Geneva convention". "They are using ambulances to carry Hamas so we are bombing them". We are supposed to believe all of this because the butter wouldn't melt in their mouths Israelis have told us and everything coming out from the Hamas controlled Palestinian side including 11,000+ death toll is completely bullshit. Of course this is all verified by our greatest Ally which only used to provide weapons to the IRA to kill us. Do you understand why I have trust issues?
|
|
|
Post by tonyhancock on Nov 16, 2023 16:48:35 GMT
Yeah, as I said on page 2 "My question would be, how did they pull it off. One of the most surveyed and protected borders in the world. Guys in sandals, taking out tanks"
I don't know, but I wouldn't be amazed if they let them do it.
Our country doesn't love us - It amazes, baffles, sickens, loads of words me, that the public hasn't cottoned on to the fact that the government / establishment is out for themselves, and it's not us they work for.
|
|
|
Post by Sammy Wren on Nov 16, 2023 17:36:51 GMT
I see a protester was on a war memorial again last night, these people piss me off along with the MET staff who continually do nothing as their told to do nothing. Now imagine a mosque or syn agog being used in this way, its fcuking out of order and insults me massively, that idiot who leads the MET needs sacking, but will he get a grip of it, no, fecking cowardly lemon. Have you ever wondered what these idiots are trying to achieve ? Because I have no idea. What they are doing is: Pissing people off who might have had sympathies for THEIR people Alienating the British Clearly demonstrating that THEY ARE FOREIGNERS, and having a British passport and a right to services (and voting) DOES NOT MAKE THEM BRITISH Can't disagree with that.
|
|
|
Post by jazzzy786 on Nov 16, 2023 17:37:28 GMT
Yeah, as I said on page 2 "My question would be, how did they pull it off. One of the most surveyed and protected borders in the world. Guys in sandals, taking out tanks" I don't know, but I wouldn't be amazed if they let them do it. Our country doesn't love us - It amazes, baffles, sickens, loads of words me, that the public hasn't cottoned on to the fact that the government / establishment is out for themselves, and it's not us they work for. I think we are aligned in our mistrust of our government.
|
|
|
Post by jazzzy786 on Nov 16, 2023 17:57:07 GMT
Have you ever wondered what these idiots are trying to achieve ? Because I have no idea. What they are doing is: Pissing people off who might have had sympathies for THEIR people Alienating the British Clearly demonstrating that THEY ARE FOREIGNERS, and having a British passport and a right to services (and voting) DOES NOT MAKE THEM BRITISH Can't disagree with that. They are just uneducated gobshite gangsta wannabe vandals who do not even understand the meaning of what the monuments represent. As they say hollow vessels make the loudest sounds and the actions of these cretins probably tars everyone else. I think you are giving them too much credit Tony thinking they have any actual beliefs or values.
|
|
|
Post by tonyhancock on Nov 16, 2023 18:04:48 GMT
Can't disagree with that. They are just uneducated gobshite gangsta wannabe vandals who do not even understand the meaning of what the monuments represent. As they say hollow vessels make the loudest sounds and the actions of these cretins probably tars everyone else. I think you are giving them too much credit Tony thinking they have any actual beliefs or values. A kind of virtue signaling, maybe. I just can't think what they think, they are going to achieve.
|
|
|
Post by tonyhancock on Nov 16, 2023 18:10:33 GMT
Yeah, as I said on page 2 "My question would be, how did they pull it off. One of the most surveyed and protected borders in the world. Guys in sandals, taking out tanks" I don't know, but I wouldn't be amazed if they let them do it. Our country doesn't love us - It amazes, baffles, sickens, loads of words me, that the public hasn't cottoned on to the fact that the government / establishment is out for themselves, and it's not us they work for. I think we are aligned in our mistrust of our government.
|
|
|
Post by tonyhancock on Nov 16, 2023 20:37:54 GMT
Hee Hee. PJW just dropped this. I suspect he thinks Ben Shapiro might apply just a leeedle bit of leeway when it comes to the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
|
|
|
Post by jazzzy786 on Nov 16, 2023 20:52:13 GMT
They are just uneducated gobshite gangsta wannabe vandals who do not even understand the meaning of what the monuments represent. As they say hollow vessels make the loudest sounds and the actions of these cretins probably tars everyone else. I think you are giving them too much credit Tony thinking they have any actual beliefs or values. A kind of virtue signaling, maybe. I just can't think what they think, they are going to achieve. There are people who think people will only take notice if they do something outrageous which brings attention. The problem is the action is destructive and defacing monuments celebrating people who have brought peace by giving their lives in war is misaligned with the cause calling for peace and an end to hostilities. This highlights the lack of intelligence of the perpetrators who only see soldier monuments celebrating killers and an extension of the Government arm
|
|
|
Post by Professor Frink on Nov 16, 2023 22:44:18 GMT
Hee Hee. PJW just dropped this. I suspect he thinks Ben Shapiro might apply just a leeedle bit of leeway when it comes to the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Well, I haven't watched it, obviously. Without watching it, I can quite imagine it has quite a bit of fact in it. What I can't imagine, for one second, is that PJW is going to give a completely unbiased, truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth version, and not leave out facts which are unfavorable to him
|
|
|
Post by choc on Nov 16, 2023 22:45:39 GMT
I agree with most of the above but your "Lest we forget" comment towards me was out of order. The 'business' comment by me was followed by disagreement with it all. Where do hamas get their weapons from to kill and burn Israeli babies. The war is terrible but unfortunately the innocent die in wars. Folks who are protesting about the Israeli response as not 'proportional' well can someone tell me what would be a proportional response to the 7th of October declaration or war? I got the impression you were cheapening those lost lives with your comment. Who knows where Hamas gets their weapons from. Probably the USA. Who may be playing both sides. I was watching something about the British soldiers who were forced to watch nuclear explosions in the line of duty and are referred to as the guinea pigs. Most of them are dead and have died in agony with cancer. Our Government is refusing to pay their families compensation quoting lack of evidence. We may love our country but our country certainly doesn't love us. I look at the Hamas attack and ask what triggered it and how did they get through borders which have the highest security and best intelligence in the world. I don't trust Israel at all and America will back them in everything they say. Proportional response? What is the currency rate of Palestinians per Israeli? The latest weapons haul they've recovered from below the hospital (the headquarters of Hamas (!!)) contained about 10 semi automatic rifles. Hospital staff are saying it belongs to the hospital security police. It's hardly the arsenal of a headquarters. If you are gonna lie at least be consistent - "We didn't bomb the hospital", "Hamas is storing weapons under hospitals so they are no longer protected under the Geneva convention". "They are using ambulances to carry Hamas so we are bombing them". We are supposed to believe all of this because the butter wouldn't melt in their mouths Israelis have told us and everything coming out from the Hamas controlled Palestinian side including 11,000+ death toll is completely bullshit. Of course this is all verified by our greatest Ally which only used to provide weapons to the IRA to kill us. Do you understand why I have trust issues? So my post that gave you the impression that I cheapened our armed services lives was as follows; Most countries have history of supply of weapons to countries they shouldn't, including us . It's called business, not right, but that's how it is.
Business meaning the supplying of arms Business. I also said not right and that means I don't agree with it. So why you then chose to use the "Lest we forget" comment against me is beyond me. Regarding Hamas weapons and the supply you probably need to start in Iran and other friendly countries in the Middle East. It's well known that the US military and probably us left alot behind in Afghanistan. The Israeli people are not happy with their government regarding the Hamas attack they are accusing the government of being asleep at the wheel and thet are probably right. What is the currency rate of Palestinians per Israeli? There isn't a rate, there never is in war, and that's my point. You could also ask Hamas the same reversed question when they were putting a baby in a mother's oven to watch it cook. Is that proportional. I wouldn't trust any foreign government, we can't even trust our own, who ever has the key to number 10, unless you follow the government lines of course 🤪
|
|
|
Post by cnote on Nov 16, 2023 23:32:08 GMT
|
|
|
Post by choc on Nov 16, 2023 23:35:52 GMT
Hee Hee. PJW just dropped this. I suspect he thinks Ben Shapiro might apply just a leeedle bit of leeway when it comes to the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Not one of your best Tony 😴
|
|
|
Post by jazzzy786 on Nov 17, 2023 9:39:16 GMT
I got the impression you were cheapening those lost lives with your comment. Who knows where Hamas gets their weapons from. Probably the USA. Who may be playing both sides. I was watching something about the British soldiers who were forced to watch nuclear explosions in the line of duty and are referred to as the guinea pigs. Most of them are dead and have died in agony with cancer. Our Government is refusing to pay their families compensation quoting lack of evidence. We may love our country but our country certainly doesn't love us. I look at the Hamas attack and ask what triggered it and how did they get through borders which have the highest security and best intelligence in the world. I don't trust Israel at all and America will back them in everything they say. Proportional response? What is the currency rate of Palestinians per Israeli? The latest weapons haul they've recovered from below the hospital (the headquarters of Hamas (!!)) contained about 10 semi automatic rifles. Hospital staff are saying it belongs to the hospital security police. It's hardly the arsenal of a headquarters. If you are gonna lie at least be consistent - "We didn't bomb the hospital", "Hamas is storing weapons under hospitals so they are no longer protected under the Geneva convention". "They are using ambulances to carry Hamas so we are bombing them". We are supposed to believe all of this because the butter wouldn't melt in their mouths Israelis have told us and everything coming out from the Hamas controlled Palestinian side including 11,000+ death toll is completely bullshit. Of course this is all verified by our greatest Ally which only used to provide weapons to the IRA to kill us. Do you understand why I have trust issues? So my post that gave you the impression that I cheapened our armed services lives was as follows; Most countries have history of supply of weapons to countries they shouldn't, including us . It's called business, not right, but that's how it is.
Business meaning the supplying of arms Business. I also said not right and that means I don't agree with it. So why you then chose to use the "Lest we forget" comment against me is beyond me. Regarding Hamas weapons and the supply you probably need to start in Iran and other friendly countries in the Middle East. It's well known that the US military and probably us left alot behind in Afghanistan. The Israeli people are not happy with their government regarding the Hamas attack they are accusing the government of being asleep at the wheel and thet are probably right. What is the currency rate of Palestinians per Israeli? There isn't a rate, there never is in war, and that's my point. You could also ask Hamas the same reversed question when they were putting a baby in a mother's oven to watch it cook. Is that proportional. I wouldn't trust any foreign government, we can't even trust our own, who ever has the key to number 10, unless you follow the government lines of course 🤪 The comment says it's normal business and everyone does it including our Government comes across as defending them. I would never forgive them as it affected people I know personally. Evil people do evil things I have not heard of the baby in the oven but I have seen the summary execution videos of settlers in the West Bank shooting kids with Israeli soldiers watching on and giving them high fives after. The rhetoric we get from a one sided media is it's black and white and good versus evil but it's tit for tat with atrocities being committed by both sides though over ten times more innocent people have been killed by Israel. The Israeli people are right in questioning their Government but as even you agree you cannot trust Governments which will lie about the truth to form public opinion to meet an agenda that the public wouldn't agree to normally. Tony Blair Iraq smoking gun anyone? If that involved killing someone to get the ball rolling they'll do it. Hamas is a Sunni Muslim group and Iran is a Shia Muslim country. There are deep divisions between these two sects and hatred of each other. While I'd agree Iran provides help to Hezbollah in Lebanon and the Houthies in Yemen it does not support Hamas. I know ISIS was created in Saudi Arabia which has a deep hatred for Shi'a Muslims and funded the Taliban in both Afghanistan and Pakistan causing a lot of bloodshed. So Saudi Arabia is probably a source of weapons to Hamas. Western Governments need the Saudi oil to prop our economies so we turn a blind eye to their evils as we don't really have any morales or values.
|
|
|
Post by choc on Nov 17, 2023 11:33:29 GMT
So my post that gave you the impression that I cheapened our armed services lives was as follows; Most countries have history of supply of weapons to countries they shouldn't, including us . It's called business, not right, but that's how it is.
Business meaning the supplying of arms Business. I also said not right and that means I don't agree with it. So why you then chose to use the "Lest we forget" comment against me is beyond me. Regarding Hamas weapons and the supply you probably need to start in Iran and other friendly countries in the Middle East. It's well known that the US military and probably us left alot behind in Afghanistan. The Israeli people are not happy with their government regarding the Hamas attack they are accusing the government of being asleep at the wheel and thet are probably right. What is the currency rate of Palestinians per Israeli? There isn't a rate, there never is in war, and that's my point. You could also ask Hamas the same reversed question when they were putting a baby in a mother's oven to watch it cook. Is that proportional. I wouldn't trust any foreign government, we can't even trust our own, who ever has the key to number 10, unless you follow the government lines of course 🤪 The comment says it's normal business and everyone does it including our Government comes across as defending them. I would never forgive them as it affected people I know personally. Evil people do evil things I have not heard of the baby in the oven but I have seen the summary execution videos of settlers in the West Bank shooting kids with Israeli soldiers watching on and giving them high fives after. The rhetoric we get from a one sided media is it's black and white and good versus evil but it's tit for tat with atrocities being committed by both sides though over ten times more innocent people have been killed by Israel. The Israeli people are right in questioning their Government but as even you agree you cannot trust Governments which will lie about the truth to form public opinion to meet an agenda that the public wouldn't agree to normally. Tony Blair Iraq smoking gun anyone? If that involved killing someone to get the ball rolling they'll do it. Hamas is a Sunni Muslim group and Iran is a Shia Muslim country. There are deep divisions between these two sects and hatred of each other. While I'd agree Iran provides help to Hezbollah in Lebanon and the Houthies in Yemen it does not support Hamas. I know ISIS was created in Saudi Arabia which has a deep hatred for Shi'a Muslims and funded the Taliban in both Afghanistan and Pakistan causing a lot of bloodshed. So Saudi Arabia is probably a source of weapons to Hamas. Western Governments need the Saudi oil to prop our economies so we turn a blind eye to their evils as we don't really have any morales or values. No it doesn't. I said it's not right so how am I defending them ?
|
|
|
Post by cnote on Nov 17, 2023 12:37:06 GMT
As with the Ukraine war new alliances are being formed in the Middle East.
|
|
|
Post by tonyhancock on Nov 17, 2023 14:21:27 GMT
Hee Hee. PJW just dropped this. I suspect he thinks Ben Shapiro might apply just a leeedle bit of leeway when it comes to the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Well, I haven't watched it, obviously. Without watching it, I can quite imagine it has quite a bit of fact in it. What I can't imagine, for one second, is that PJW is going to give a completely unbiased, truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth version, and not leave out facts which are unfavorable to him Has PJW got a dog in this fight ?
|
|
|
Post by jazzzy786 on Nov 17, 2023 14:39:55 GMT
It's not business though is it? It is supplying one side so they kill the other. They knew we were at war. So their intention was to kill us. In law it's called aiding and abetting. If you think that's fine then I'll say no more on the subject.
|
|
|
Post by tonyhancock on Nov 17, 2023 14:40:29 GMT
As with the Ukraine war new alliances are being formed in the Middle East. Wonderful. I didn't realise there are 57 Islamic nations. The Persians and the Saudis have kissed and made up, both cozying up to the BRICS (China & Russia), and "If the killings don't stop it will lead to a rift between the Islamic nations and the West". Includes us. Fan fcuking tastic. I don't know what to realistically hope for. Both sides pack it in, ideally, but I guess it's not that simple. Neither side trusts the other (and they're probably both right). You'd have the 'first we get revenge for x, then peace' The US tells Israel to wind it's neck in? Well I think you know the issue with that one. If no ceasefire, then from the Israeli point of view, they better sort it quickly, because if this drags on, their neighbours are going to lose their shit.
|
|
|
Post by choc on Nov 17, 2023 17:21:07 GMT
It's not business though is it? It is supplying one side so they kill the other. They knew we were at war. So their intention was to kill us. In law it's called aiding and abetting. If you think that's fine then I'll say no more on the subject. How many times do I have to point out to you that I said its not rightA lot of arms deals 'business' are done way before any war has even started. Israel did sell aircraft to Argentina before the conflict, but during? depends who you believe. Unless you have the evidence?
|
|
|
Post by Professor Frink on Nov 17, 2023 22:23:21 GMT
Well, I haven't watched it, obviously. Without watching it, I can quite imagine it has quite a bit of fact in it. What I can't imagine, for one second, is that PJW is going to give a completely unbiased, truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth version, and not leave out facts which are unfavorable to him Has PJW got a dog in this fight ? Most definitely. The octopuses tentacles reach deep Tone.
|
|
|
Post by jazzzy786 on Nov 18, 2023 0:01:36 GMT
It's not business though is it? It is supplying one side so they kill the other. They knew we were at war. So their intention was to kill us. In law it's called aiding and abetting. If you think that's fine then I'll say no more on the subject. How many times do I have to point out to you that I said its not rightA lot of arms deals 'business' are done way before any war has even started. Israel did sell aircraft to Argentina before the conflict, but during? depends who you believe. Unless you have the evidence? www.fiassociation.com/article/672/argentina__military_support_from_israel_in_1982#:~:text=Newly%20declassified%20files%20from%20the,and%20during%2C%20the%201982%20conflict. Significant supply of weaponry and strike aircraft before and DURING the conflict. Declassified documents from the national archive. There's your proof. Still trying to defend them I see.
|
|
|
Post by tonyhancock on Nov 18, 2023 0:47:09 GMT
Has PJW got a dog in this fight ? Most definitely. The octopuses tentacles reach deep Tone. Not that you're aware of, then
|
|
|
Post by cnote on Nov 18, 2023 6:24:41 GMT
|
|
|
Post by cnote on Nov 18, 2023 8:02:27 GMT
|
|
|
Post by choc on Nov 18, 2023 10:39:50 GMT
Yes it looks like they were doing arms deals before during and after. After further reading it also is evident that at this time relations between us and Israel was not great and also worth pointing out that we were supplying the enemies of Israel with arms at this time. So my original comment 'most countries have history of supply of weapons to countries they shouldn't, including us. It's called business, not right, but that's how it is, holds some truth.
|
|