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Post by tonyhancock on Nov 13, 2023 19:20:16 GMT
Again. I'm on neither's side. Hamas had their reasons, and I doubt one of them was suicide. The UK is hardly innocent when it comes to declaring war. I say the UK, I mean those in charge, obviously. I haven't spoken to Hamas, but I doubt their reasons were 'Just felt like it' What their suicide or their people. These savages are hell bent on the fight without considering the innocent on both sides. Well not on the Israeli side, that's for sure. It was however, a fight they were never going to win
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Post by tonyhancock on Nov 13, 2023 19:22:19 GMT
In this situation i support total wipeout. I think you'll probably get your wish and Israel will ethically cleanse both the Gaza strip and the West Bank, murder 2m people and take the whole area. They will never live in peace though as they will be seen as the new nazis. Also expect the war to escalate into the neighbouring countries. I dunno. I can see a million heading to Europe.
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Post by tonyhancock on Nov 13, 2023 20:20:45 GMT
USA doing air strikes in Syria. I'm sure there will be different views as to why
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Post by jazzzy786 on Nov 13, 2023 21:50:32 GMT
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Post by choc on Nov 13, 2023 23:23:36 GMT
Most countries have history of supply of weapons to countries they shouldn't, including us. It's called business, not right, but that's how it is.
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Post by tonyhancock on Nov 13, 2023 23:29:16 GMT
They cut out the middle man with the USS Liberty. Neither side are our friends, we should keep our beaks out. Backing either one would lead to trouble we could well do without, and we have zero influence on either side. They won't listen to us. Hell I don't listen to the British government if I can help it. They weren't at each other's throats under the Ottomans, and not particularly at each other's throats under the British. Basically they followed the rules. It seems the British drew some maps, and gave them both independence, which left some people in a minority in various jurisdictions. Conditions in these jurisdictions were unfavorable to the minorities. It's been kicking off since then. I'm not putting all the blame on Israel, I think the Palestinians started a lot of the fights. But it seems to me, as Israel came out on top, every time, there has been a tendency towards annexing Palestinian lands. I think the end game is for Israel to take it all.
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Post by choc on Nov 14, 2023 9:33:50 GMT
They cut out the middle man with the USS Liberty. Neither side are our friends, we should keep our beaks out. Backing either one would lead to trouble we could well do without, and we have zero influence on either side. They won't listen to us. Hell I don't listen to the British government if I can help it. They weren't at each other's throats under the Ottomans, and not particularly at each other's throats under the British. Basically they followed the rules. It seems the British drew some maps, and gave them both independence, which left some people in a minority in various jurisdictions. Conditions in these jurisdictions were unfavorable to the minorities. It's been kicking off since then. I'm not putting all the blame on Israel, I think the Palestinians started a lot of the fights. But it seems to me, as Israel came out on top, every time, there has been a tendency towards annexing Palestinian lands. I think the end game is for Israel to take it all. Add to that there has been quite a few serious attempts to sort out the issue but the Palestinians always walk away from the table. They only want one solution and that won't happen.
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Post by tonyhancock on Nov 14, 2023 17:35:22 GMT
They cut out the middle man with the USS Liberty. Neither side are our friends, we should keep our beaks out. Backing either one would lead to trouble we could well do without, and we have zero influence on either side. They won't listen to us. Hell I don't listen to the British government if I can help it. They weren't at each other's throats under the Ottomans, and not particularly at each other's throats under the British. Basically they followed the rules. It seems the British drew some maps, and gave them both independence, which left some people in a minority in various jurisdictions. Conditions in these jurisdictions were unfavorable to the minorities. It's been kicking off since then. I'm not putting all the blame on Israel, I think the Palestinians started a lot of the fights. But it seems to me, as Israel came out on top, every time, there has been a tendency towards annexing Palestinian lands. I think the end game is for Israel to take it all. Add to that there has been quite a few serious attempts to sort out the issue but the Palestinians always walk away from the table. They only want one solution and that won't happen. Attempts by whom ?
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Post by jazzzy786 on Nov 14, 2023 18:21:08 GMT
Most countries have history of supply of weapons to countries they shouldn't, including us. It's called business, not right, but that's how it is. Yes you are right it happened 40 years ago and me mentioning it is like a vile fan talking about winning the European Cup. You are being very selective about your "Lest we forget". Why even bother remembering the servicemen who died in WW1 which over a hundred years ago. The Germans are our friends now. They aren't our friends and why are we getting involved when it's got nothing to do with us.
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Post by choc on Nov 14, 2023 18:23:52 GMT
Most countries have history of supply of weapons to countries they shouldn't, including us. It's called business, not right, but that's how it is. Yes you are right it happened 40 years ago and me mentioning it is like a vile fan talking about winning the European Cup. You are being very selective about your "Lest we forget". Why even bother remembering the servicemen who died in WW1 which over a hundred years ago. The Germans are our friends now Why am I being selective?
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Post by choc on Nov 14, 2023 18:25:39 GMT
Add to that there has been quite a few serious attempts to sort out the issue but the Palestinians always walk away from the table. They only want one solution and that won't happen. Attempts by whom ? I think you should watch that video toney and then prove him wrong.
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Post by jazzzy786 on Nov 14, 2023 18:36:05 GMT
Yes you are right it happened 40 years ago and me mentioning it is like a vile fan talking about winning the European Cup. You are being very selective about your "Lest we forget". Why even bother remembering the servicemen who died in WW1 which over a hundred years ago. The Germans are our friends now Why am I being selective? You answer that. You are the one defending them. They are responsible for the death of our servicemen but to you it's business. So their deaths don't matter. They aren't our friends and we need to steer clear.
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Post by tonyhancock on Nov 14, 2023 19:28:10 GMT
I think you should watch that video toney and then prove him wrong. Honestly I've got things on, which you wouldn't believe. I'm not up for a Jewish take on who's to blame, the Jews or the Palestinians. My understanding is this: WW1 - the British cut a deal with the Arabs, so they'd help them fight the Ottomans. Again, my understanding, the British were up for stitching them up, and would have if it wasn't for Lawrence. They also cut a deal with the Jews. They use their influence in politics, finance and media, to help get the US involved, and the British would sort them out a homeland in Palestine. If Ben didn't mention this, and if you were wondering, this is why the issue got brain space in the middle of a war which was pretty much nothing to do with it, or Britain. The British subsequently made a half arsed job of that. Long story short, they got another bash at it, and Israel was a goer. This meant displacing a shit load of people, and having one side rule over another, in both jurisdictions, who wanted nothing to do with their laws and customs. I don't blame one side or the other for events after the partition. Or probably more accurately, blame both I don't see an answer. Plonking dirty great populations, amongst other incompatible people, is going to cause trouble, sooner or later. As I might have mentioned So, if either side walked away, they walked away because they didn't like the way the wind was blowing. In this case, I'm guessing it wasn't the Saudis making the suggestions
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Post by choc on Nov 14, 2023 20:07:26 GMT
I think you should watch that video toney and then prove him wrong. Honestly I've got things on, which you wouldn't believe. I'm not up for a Jewish take on who's to blame, the Jews or the Palestinians. My understanding is this: WW1 - the British cut a deal with the Arabs, so they'd help them fight the Ottomans. Again, my understanding, the British were up for stitching them up, and would have if it wasn't for Lawrence. They also cut a deal with the Jews. They use their influence in politics, finance and media, to help get the US involved, and the British would sort them out a homeland in Palestine. If Ben didn't mention this, and if you were wondering, this is why the issue got brain space in the middle of a war which was pretty much nothing to do with it, or Britain. The British subsequently made a half arsed job of that. Long story short, they got another bash at it, and Israel was a goer. This meant displacing a shit load of people, and having one side rule over another, in both jurisdictions, who wanted nothing to do with their laws and customs. I don't blame one side or the other for events after the partition. Or probably more accurately, blame both I don't see an answer. Plonking dirty great populations, amongst other incompatible people, is going to cause trouble, sooner or later. As I might have mentioned So, if either side walked away, they walked away because they didn't like the way the wind was blowing. In this case, I'm guessing it wasn't the Saudis making the suggestions With respect that's a bit simplistic. You have to go back before BC to fully try and understand the history regarding the disputed land. The bloke is Jewish but very intelligent. He destroyed the Oxford Union and the other lot in Cambridge a week or two ago. That also worth a watch.
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Post by choc on Nov 14, 2023 20:12:38 GMT
Why am I being selective? You answer that. You are the one defending them. They are responsible for the death of our servicemen but to you it's business. So their deaths don't matter. They aren't our friends and we need to steer clear. I'm not defending anyone. Just pointing out fact. As I said we British are just as guilty as many other countries. I find your comments to me actually quite offensive when you know nothing of my background or family history.
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Post by tonyhancock on Nov 14, 2023 20:28:18 GMT
Honestly I've got things on, which you wouldn't believe. I'm not up for a Jewish take on who's to blame, the Jews or the Palestinians. My understanding is this: WW1 - the British cut a deal with the Arabs, so they'd help them fight the Ottomans. Again, my understanding, the British were up for stitching them up, and would have if it wasn't for Lawrence. They also cut a deal with the Jews. They use their influence in politics, finance and media, to help get the US involved, and the British would sort them out a homeland in Palestine. If Ben didn't mention this, and if you were wondering, this is why the issue got brain space in the middle of a war which was pretty much nothing to do with it, or Britain. The British subsequently made a half arsed job of that. Long story short, they got another bash at it, and Israel was a goer. This meant displacing a shit load of people, and having one side rule over another, in both jurisdictions, who wanted nothing to do with their laws and customs. I don't blame one side or the other for events after the partition. Or probably more accurately, blame both I don't see an answer. Plonking dirty great populations, amongst other incompatible people, is going to cause trouble, sooner or later. As I might have mentioned So, if either side walked away, they walked away because they didn't like the way the wind was blowing. In this case, I'm guessing it wasn't the Saudis making the suggestions With respect that's a bit simplistic. You have to go back before BC to fully try and understand the history regarding the disputed land. The bloke is Jewish but very intelligent. He destroyed the Oxford Union and the other lot in Cambridge a week or two ago. That also worth a watch. Totally simplistic. It'd take days to put a paper together. I've watched Ben Shapiro many times. I don't doubt his intelligence. Most Jews are above average when it comes to intelligence. I've seen him lose his shit over this. I've not seen the same reaction when it comes to other people, but when it's his own, well angry. Ben Shapiro is never in a million years going to be unbiased. He is not going to tell the whole story. Go back to before BC. I know. Can you imagine the court case. Thousands of years have led us to where we are now, with maybe hundreds of twists and turns along the way. At the end of the day, we are where we are. For me, it should be - they are where they are. It's been happening all over the world, since forever. Where we are, is two peoples competing for the same space. I doubt either side would admit it, but I think both sides would like it all. The Palestinians have zero chance of winning. What might make things spicy, is if the neighboring countries decide enough is enough. "With, without. And who'll deny it's what the fighting's all about?"
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Post by tonyhancock on Nov 14, 2023 20:34:11 GMT
You answer that. You are the one defending them. They are responsible for the death of our servicemen but to you it's business. So their deaths don't matter. They aren't our friends and we need to steer clear. I'm not defending anyone. Just pointing out fact. As I said we British are just as guilty as many other countries. I find your comments to me actually quite offensive when you know nothing of my background or family history. Ah. I thought it was just your tendency to go with the government line.
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Post by choc on Nov 14, 2023 20:46:15 GMT
I'm not defending anyone. Just pointing out fact. As I said we British are just as guilty as many other countries. I find your comments to me actually quite offensive when you know nothing of my background or family history. Ah. I thought it was just your tendency to go with the government line. How do you work that out. I do agree with some things all parties have to say. Definitely not going with government line because IMO they, like all governments, rarely achieve anything of note.
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Post by jazzzy786 on Nov 14, 2023 20:47:38 GMT
You answer that. You are the one defending them. They are responsible for the death of our servicemen but to you it's business. So their deaths don't matter. They aren't our friends and we need to steer clear. I'm not defending anyone. Just pointing out fact. As I said we British are just as guilty as many other countries. I find your comments to me actually quite offensive when you know nothing of my background or family history. I have friends who died in the Falklands and grandparents and generations who fought in both wars so with due respect fcuk Israel. They fought for our freedoms and I am against my taxes being used to kill babies.
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Post by choc on Nov 14, 2023 20:56:02 GMT
I'm not defending anyone. Just pointing out fact. As I said we British are just as guilty as many other countries. I find your comments to me actually quite offensive when you know nothing of my background or family history. I have friends who died in the Falklands and grandparents and generations who fought in both wars so with due respect fcuk Israel. They fought for our freedoms and I am against my taxes being used to kill babies. Strange that you ignore my post. You take a side that's fine but I think you would admit there has been the killing of babies on both sides of the wire. It was obvious what the response would be after October 7th but unfortunately Hamas don't give a flying feck about their or anyone else's babies.
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Post by tonyhancock on Nov 14, 2023 21:07:18 GMT
Ah. I thought it was just your tendency to go with the government line. How do you work that out. I do agree with some things all parties have to say. Definitely not going with government line because IMO they, like all governments, rarely achieve anything of note. I was referring to your family history, if I'm reading you correctly. Oh governments achieve stuff, I just wish they wouldn't
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Post by choc on Nov 14, 2023 21:46:46 GMT
How do you work that out. I do agree with some things all parties have to say. Definitely not going with government line because IMO they, like all governments, rarely achieve anything of note. I was referring to your family history, if I'm reading you correctly. Oh governments achieve stuff, I just wish they wouldn't What's my family history got to do with government line.
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Post by tonyhancock on Nov 14, 2023 22:04:29 GMT
I was referring to your family history, if I'm reading you correctly. Oh governments achieve stuff, I just wish they wouldn't What's my family history got to do with government line. "I find your comments to me actually quite offensive when you know nothing of my background or family history" "Ah. I thought it was just your tendency to go with the government line" I got the impression that's what you meant
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Post by cnote on Nov 15, 2023 5:23:02 GMT
Most countries have history of supply of weapons to countries they shouldn't, including us. It's called business, not right, but that's how it is. Yes you are right it happened 40 years ago and me mentioning it is like a vile fan talking about winning the European Cup. You are being very selective about your "Lest we forget". Why even bother remembering the servicemen who died in WW1 which over a hundred years ago. The Germans are our friends now. They aren't our friends and why are we getting involved when it's got nothing to do with us. He’s got too involved to be neutral which is the position he should be taking. Can you imagine the backlash that would emerge if we started supplying weapons to Hamas and Hezbolah right in the middle of a war?
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Post by Professor Frink on Nov 15, 2023 6:43:41 GMT
Tone this is a good vid to watch about the history of the troubles. You will need 40 mins in a quiet place to take it in 🤔 Well, I haven't watched it, obviously. Without watching it, I can quite imagine it has quite a bit of fact in it. What I can't imagine, for one second, is that Ben Shapiro is going to give a completely unbiased, truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth version, and not leave out facts which are unfavorable to him Lol the irony.
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Post by choc on Nov 15, 2023 9:10:11 GMT
What's my family history got to do with government line. "I find your comments to me actually quite offensive when you know nothing of my background or family history" "Ah. I thought it was just your tendency to go with the government line" I got the impression that's what you meant My family history is nothing to do with government lines
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Post by choc on Nov 15, 2023 9:11:12 GMT
Well, I haven't watched it, obviously. Without watching it, I can quite imagine it has quite a bit of fact in it. What I can't imagine, for one second, is that Ben Shapiro is going to give a completely unbiased, truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth version, and not leave out facts which are unfavorable to him Lol the irony. 😁
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Post by tonyhancock on Nov 15, 2023 14:34:47 GMT
"I find your comments to me actually quite offensive when you know nothing of my background or family history" "Ah. I thought it was just your tendency to go with the government line" I got the impression that's what you meant My family history is nothing to do with government lines OK. You tell me what you were on about "I find your comments to me actually quite offensive when you know nothing of my background or family history"
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Post by choc on Nov 15, 2023 18:21:13 GMT
My family history is nothing to do with government lines OK. You tell me what you were on about "I find your comments to me actually quite offensive when you know nothing of my background or family history" Actually Tony I don't know why you are getting involved with a disagreement between me and Jazzzy. It has nothing to do with our government lines. You need to read above. We were talking about countries supplying arms which can then end up in the wrong hands. Jaz said "You are being very selective about your "Lest we forget". Where that came from I don't know and that is what pissed me off. My Mrs organises remembrance Sunday every year in a particular bromsgrove parish. We also attend. I always wear the poppy. All this has nothing to do with government lines or the rest of my family.
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Post by tonyhancock on Nov 15, 2023 20:13:12 GMT
OK. You tell me what you were on about "I find your comments to me actually quite offensive when you know nothing of my background or family history" Actually Tony I don't know why you are getting involved with a disagreement between me and Jazzzy. It has nothing to do with our government lines. You need to read above. We were talking about countries supplying arms which can then end up in the wrong hands. Jaz said "You are being very selective about your "Lest we forget". Where that came from I don't know and that is what pissed me off. My Mrs organises remembrance Sunday every year in a particular bromsgrove parish. We also attend. I always wear the poppy. All this has nothing to do with government lines or the rest of my family. Oh is that what you meant. Urm, it'd be better if we didn't allow the conflict to spread to ourselves. And well done to Mrs choc - top gal. Probably best to stick to what we think might happen, as opposed to
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