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Post by bignumbernine on Feb 25, 2024 19:20:32 GMT
33 played. 13 to go.
The club announced on monday that Mowbray will miss approx 6-8 weeks as manager and promptly appointed his assistant Mark Venus as his caretaker.
If we take the worst case scenario (this is Blues, afterall) that could mean Mowbray is gone until mid-April. Here are the fixtures he could potentially miss:
2 March (H) - Southampton (4th)
5 March (A) - Hull (6th)
9 March (A) - Millwall (20th)
12 March (H) - Middlesbrough (13th)
16 March (H) - Watford (11th)
29 March (A) - QPR (21st)
1 April (H) - Preston (8th)
6 April (A) - Leicester (1st)
10 April (H) - Cardiff (14th)
13 April (H) - Coventry (9th)
Assuming Mowbray then fully returns to manage the team after 8 weeks, he will be left with just three games in the season:
20 April (A) - Rotherham (24th)
27 April (A) - Huddersfield (19th)
4 May (H) - Norwich (7th)
If we keep up the assumption that Mowbray will return after 8 weeks, Venus will be in charge for another 10 games. 6 of those 10 are against teams currently sitting in the top half of the table and it also includes QPR away - quite possibly one of the most important games left in the season. According to his Wikipedia page, Venus has managed a total of 22 games. TWENTY TWO. We're potentially asking him to manage 10 more games with essentially zero managerial experience with a lot hanging on the line here. If shit hits the fan during his caretaker run, what actually happens? I doubt Mowbray can come back early but do they have a contingency plan? Because it's entirely probable to me that Venus is out of his depth and we may have to look elsewhere to save our season.
Looking at our run of games to end the season has scared the shit out of me, quite frankly. It's now struck me that we have a completely unknown quantity in charge in the most crucial of time periods. I can't help but think that we are yet again staring down the barrel of relegation and Mowbray won't have a lot of time to turn it around if it all goes tits up and IF he even comes back at all before the season ends.
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Post by Professor Frink on Feb 25, 2024 20:17:09 GMT
33 played. 13 to go. The club announced on monday that Mowbray will miss approx 6-8 weeks as manager and promptly appointed his assistant Mark Venus as his caretaker. If we take the worst case scenario (this is Blues, afterall) that could mean Mowbray is gone until mid-April. Here are the fixtures he could potentially miss: 2 March (H) - Southampton (4th) 5 March (A) - Hull (6th) 9 March (A) - Millwall (20th) 12 March (H) - Middlesbrough (13th) 16 March (H) - Watford (11th) 29 March (A) - QPR (21st) 1 April (H) - Preston (8th) 6 April (A) - Leicester (1st) 10 April (H) - Cardiff (14th) 13 April (H) - Coventry (9th) Assuming Mowbray then fully returns to manage the team after 8 weeks, he will be left with just three games in the season: 20 April (A) - Rotherham (24th) 27 April (A) - Huddersfield (19th) 4 May (H) - Norwich (7th) If we keep up the assumption that Mowbray will return after 8 weeks, Venus will be in charge for another 10 games. 6 of those 10 are against teams currently sitting in the top half of the table and it also includes QPR away - quite possibly one of the most important games left in the season. According to his Wikipedia page, Venus has managed a total of 22 games. TWENTY TWO. We're potentially asking him to manage 10 more games with essentially zero managerial experience with a lot hanging on the line here. If shit hits the fan during his caretaker run, what actually happens? I doubt Mowbray can come back early but do they have a contingency plan? Because it's entirely probable to me that Venus is out of his depth and we may have to look elsewhere to save our season. Looking at our run of games to end the season has scared the shit out of me, quite frankly. It's now struck me that we have a completely unknown quantity in charge in the most crucial of time periods. I can't help but think that we are yet again staring down the barrel of relegation and Mowbray won't have a lot of time to turn it around if it all goes tits up and IF he even comes back at all before the season ends. I’ll be honest I think you are completely over egging the actual role of a manager, and dismissing the role of the back room staff |
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Post by BluenoseB on Feb 25, 2024 20:23:00 GMT
Think we would if lost saturday with mowbray here tbh, and the results, future fixtures and lrague table would still be the same. Yea it is a worry here not here but is what it is and hope we have enough to get us over the line. We will prob pick up points in the ganes wer not expected too.
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Post by bignumbernine on Feb 25, 2024 21:06:49 GMT
Forgive my ignorance, but is the backroom staff, aside from Venus, the same we had under Rooney?
If the answer if yes then that is evidence that their impact is minimal.
The cold hard facts are that we have a bloke in charge for the final quarter of a season who has no experience. We’re 3 points off the drop with some very tough fixtures coming up.
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Post by Professor Frink on Feb 25, 2024 22:12:23 GMT
Forgive my ignorance, but is the backroom staff, aside from Venus, the same we had under Rooney? If the answer if yes then that is evidence that their impact is minimal. The cold hard facts are that we have a bloke in charge for the final quarter of a season who has no experience. We’re 3 points off the drop with some very tough fixtures coming up. Ok sure…if we are saying it’s down to the manager I’d argue Rooney had very little experience…. Venus has been Mowbray sidekick since 2004. To say he doesn’t have experience is folly imo |
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Post by Dirty White Slip-on on Feb 25, 2024 22:18:29 GMT
I think if we knew what was wrong with TW then perceptions might change, medical conditions are private if you chose and at so point we’ll be told I presume The question I ask does his illness hamper the management of the team and descision making ? I don’t think I’ve ever seen a team drawing at 1-1 and removing both of your CMs  ? No midweek game Dozzell especially match fit, Paik I can understand Sunjic coming on So who made this decision on Saturday afternoon Venus or Mowbray ? |
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Post by bignumbernine on Feb 25, 2024 22:31:26 GMT
Forgive my ignorance, but is the backroom staff, aside from Venus, the same we had under Rooney? If the answer if yes then that is evidence that their impact is minimal. The cold hard facts are that we have a bloke in charge for the final quarter of a season who has no experience. We’re 3 points off the drop with some very tough fixtures coming up. Ok sure…if we are saying it’s down to the manager I’d argue Rooney had very little experience…. Venus has been Mowbray sidekick since 2004. To say he doesn’t have experience is folly imo Well I didn’t want Rooney but not because of his experience. He had a fair bit of management experience under his belt by the time he came to us. Do you actually believe that Venus being an assistant for 20 years qualifies him to be our caretaker? If yes, we’re going to have to agree to disagree because being a #2 and being the final decision maker on lineups / tactics etc are two completely different things in my book. |
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Post by TILTON on Feb 26, 2024 10:32:33 GMT
We are more than capable of losing the next two.
We are also very adept at feck ups like Millwall, QPR, Rotherham and Huddersfield away. Even more so when you factor in we are the third worst away team.
You can right off the Leicester game too.
That’s 7 of the 13 where we could end up with maybe 3 points. I think with all the new manager bounces and maybe a Stoke one too 50 points are needed. So we will have to start doing something AWAY!!!!
Venus may well know TM inside out but I doubt TM makes the change to remove our strong position in the game and taking off both of our holding midfield players.
Mowbray will have a calming influence and for me I think we have to plan that he doesn’t come back until the summer as it’s naive.
It could be an idea to ask Mowbray to suggest any current free manager to at least be brought in for an interim basis. This can go horribly wrong really quickly.
The more we fail away the more pressure we add to the home games.
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Post by bubba on Feb 26, 2024 10:59:44 GMT
Venus has said the two midfielders were replaced to give us more energy, tbh stll think it was wrong, partcularly Dozzell as before that we looked just as likely to nick it as them imo and after it we were a bit of a shambles and the whole Gary Gardner for Drameh thing was utterly bonkers when we had Buchanan on the bench and Laird on the pitch who could have just swapped to his 'normal' position only to 5 minutes later take off Sanderson for Juke leaving us 2 defenders on the pitch? ? ?
All that said not worried about Venus being in charge for a few weeks, he played the same team and tactics that Mowbray would have done and the players despite losing seem to be comfortable knowing what their game plan is and we won't be playing teams like Ipswich and Southampton every game. Just so long as no more weird substitution choices which was my only gripe last time out.
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Post by Professor Frink on Feb 26, 2024 11:05:20 GMT
the subs were mental on saturday. I have no idea what he was thinking
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Post by TILTON on Feb 26, 2024 11:31:08 GMT
At worst he should have changed one then waited a while for the next.
It is clear at that point we were doing ok and a draw was not to be sniffed at.
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Post by royalblue on Feb 26, 2024 14:07:33 GMT
I think this is going to be a hell of a run in and we are in a fight to stay up. The game in hand is a plus but only if we can convert it into points but Middlesbrough at home is far from a given. Rotherham are all but gone and will be by the time we go there at the end of April. At the moment the rest are picking up results but Stoke look to be struggling. Millwall were in that position a little while back but go and win at Southampton. It’s going to a fight and we are at the minute, right in it. Did not see the game beyond the highlights but the subs appeared bizarre and concerning. That does not reassure me and ending the game with two recognised defenders on was puzzling. I was left wondering if Venus had found Lee Clarke’s tombola machine and giving it a spin as the game progressed. We are capable of getting safe but weakening our defence when drawing with 9 minutes left at a side with a strong record at home just invited trouble. Venus needs to give his head a wobble or we could be in the brown stuff.
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Post by Sammy Wren on Feb 26, 2024 14:09:46 GMT
We'll be ok, all the other teams have to play Leicester ect. Not loosing 2 or 3 on the trot is going to be key. Keep the lazy bastards away from the camp.
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Post by bignumbernine on Mar 16, 2024 20:04:24 GMT
Update:
2 March (H) - Southampton (4th) - LOST
5 March (A) - Hull (6th) - DREW
9 March (A) - Millwall (20th) - LOST
12 March (H) - Middlesbrough (13th) - LOST
16 March (H) - Watford (11th) - LOST
The results speak for themselves - Venus in charge is a failed experiment and something needs to be done.
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Post by bignumbernine on Mar 16, 2024 20:06:11 GMT
I’ll be honest I think you are completely over egging the actual role of a manager, and dismissing the role of the back room staff Turns out managers are actually quite important. |
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Post by bubba on Mar 16, 2024 20:35:00 GMT
Update: 2 March (H) - Southampton (4th) - LOST 5 March (A) - Hull (6th) - DREW 9 March (A) - Millwall (20th) - LOST 12 March (H) - Middlesbrough (13th) - LOST 16 March (H) - Watford (11th) - LOST The results speak for themselves - Venus in charge is a failed experiment and something needs to be done.
Not many expected anything from the top two games so getting a point was ok. Even then their goal was pushed in with the guys arm, a clearer handball you won't see and it stole 2 points off us. Southampton got a corner that wasn't a corner that led to another in the dying seconds and from that passage of play equalised and that after we'd harshly been reduced to ten men with Sanderson sent off, agan we should by rights have had another point.
Millwall we weren't very good and deserved to lose on the balance of play, however we were denied a stonewall penaly on Stansfield and there are question marks on their goal too, fine margins and all that, we could seriously have won that game with a different referee.
Boro no defence, we were poor and played like it was a preseason friendly, no tempo and not enough fire and got what we deserved.
Today the better side, 27 shots again just like we were playing a few games back andd got undone by two players doing things they should have known better not to do but no way we deserved to lose today on the balance of play.
Technically you are right listing the results but by adding context I think it shows it hasn't in the main been as terrrible as some say. None of us are happy, most of us are very concerned but we have some decent players and today was the kind of performance where with a few tweaks we could run out comfortable winners. Got to keep the faith and not throw the baby out with the bathwater, today wasn't boro again.
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Post by bluescharlie on Mar 16, 2024 20:45:03 GMT
As bubba says it really is fine margins and none of it has gone our way. That could be easily switch. I understand the fretting but I think there’s enough to have an element of calmness
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Post by bignumbernine on Mar 16, 2024 21:15:23 GMT
If we go down and we’re away at Leyton Orient on a random November Tuesday, nobody is going to stand there in the rain and think, “crikey, we should’ve had a penalty away at Millwall back in March”.
We are in such a critical state now that it’s has become a pure, results based situation. I don’t care that we played much better today compared to Tuesday. When we look back it will show a 1-0 loss to Boro and 1-0 loss to Watford. Nobody will care that we played better.
Coulda, shoulda, woulda is irrelevant now.
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Post by nobbynomad on Mar 16, 2024 21:16:34 GMT
Update: 2 March (H) - Southampton (4th) - LOST 5 March (A) - Hull (6th) - DREW 9 March (A) - Millwall (20th) - LOST 12 March (H) - Middlesbrough (13th) - LOST 16 March (H) - Watford (11th) - LOST The results speak for themselves - Venus in charge is a failed experiment and something needs to be done.
Not many expected anything from the top two games so getting a point was ok. Even then their goal was pushed in with the guys arm, a clearer handball you won't see and it stole 2 points off us. Southampton got a corner that wasn't a corner that led to another in the dying seconds and from that passage of play equalised and that after we'd harshly been reduced to ten men with Sanderson sent off, agan we should by rights have had another point.
Millwall we weren't very good and deserved to lose on the balance of play, however we were denied a stonewall penaly on Stansfield and there are question marks on their goal too, fine margins and all that, we could seriously have won that game with a different referee.
Boro no defence, we were poor and played like it was a preseason friendly, no tempo and not enough fire and got what we deserved.
Today the better side, 27 shots again just like we were playing a few games back andd got undone by two players doing things they should have known better not to do but no way we deserved to lose today on the balance of play.
Technically you are right listing the results but by adding context I think it shows it hasn't in the main been as terrrible as some say. None of us are happy, most of us are very concerned but we have some decent players and today was the kind of performance where with a few tweaks we could run out comfortable winners. Got to keep the faith and not throw the baby out with the bathwater, today wasn't boro again.
Some reasonable observations, but ultimately 1 point in 6 games. |
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Post by bubba on Mar 16, 2024 22:05:23 GMT
Yes, as said I accept that, you can't argue with facts well not if you're sensible. At the same time just saying the results ignores context, and sure you can do that and a lot of people in my experience do do just that, but you're only ever getting part of the story.
Shit teams or teams that play shit can now and again beat good tems or teams that play really well on the day, it happens, if it didn't then we wouldn't watch it at all. However the teams that play well more often will generally finish higher up the table which is why I put far more store (generally most of the time) in how we played and recently how much the ref fecked us.
If we go by results, we've taken one point in 6 games losing 5 of them and people who make that the whole story think we're doomed, it'll never get better, it's all Cook's fault or Rooney's fault or Venus' fault and life's not fair and I want to fight someone.
However if you look at performances
IPSWCH - outplayed completely for half an hour, a bit better towards halftime, went toe to toe in an even second half until the last ten minutes or so and some weird sub choices but decent away to 3rd/4th in the league who've been smashing teams at home all season. Scorcher from JJ.
SOUTHAMPTON - against one of the best footballng Sides in the division who were in the prem last season we scored 3 goals and only lost after harshly having a man sent off and the ref wrongly awarding a corner leading ultimately to their winner.
Hull - away to another top 6 side we were 2nd best but would have come away with all 3 points were it not for the ref completely missing their player handballng the ball into the net for their eqaliser.
MILLWALL - we deserved to lose, they were better than us but let's be clear we were denied a stonewall penalty on Stansfield and though different opinions on their goal and whether Mark Roberts got shoved, either way both big goal deciding decisions went against us and whichever way you look at it game after game refs have been fcuking us and costing us points, clearly 4 and maybe as much as 6 points just in these last 3 games. How would we have performed in the next two games with the confidence of those points in the bank as they absolutely should have been?
BORO - no defence, we weren't good enough and got what we deserved, fck all.
WATFORD - as said we were comfortably the better side, 27 shots and lost to some ridiculous decision making by two players who otherwise played well and bloody brilliantly in the case of Drameh, yes poor decision making in the final third but there was a lot more right than wrong today.
So taking in the whole 3 decent performances aganst 3 of the best sides in the division scoring 5 goals and another today without the goals to show for it. Admittedly Millwall was not great and boro was really poor, but overall that's not the profile of a team putting in shite performance after shite performance and on balance it should turn for us, just like it did when Monk was not getting the results performances deserved a few years back, think fans miss this sometimes.
Results are results and they can sting, but performances point the way and ours haven't been as bad overall as many would have us believe, we've made a few howlers in defence and attack and had a string of very costly ref decisions fcuk us, nobody wil feel sorry for us and we shouldn't either, but doesn't stop it being true.
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Post by bignumbernine on Mar 16, 2024 22:55:34 GMT
And none of that matters one iota when we lose the games anyway.
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Post by bubba on Mar 16, 2024 23:13:24 GMT
ok
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Post by BluenoseB on Mar 16, 2024 23:26:11 GMT
33 played. 13 to go. The club announced on monday that Mowbray will miss approx 6-8 weeks as manager and promptly appointed his assistant Mark Venus as his caretaker. If we take the worst case scenario (this is Blues, afterall) that could mean Mowbray is gone until mid-April. Here are the fixtures he could potentially miss: 2 March (H) - Southampton (4th) 5 March (A) - Hull (6th) 9 March (A) - Millwall (20th) 12 March (H) - Middlesbrough (13th) 16 March (H) - Watford (11th) 29 March (A) - QPR (21st) 1 April (H) - Preston (8th) 6 April (A) - Leicester (1st) 10 April (H) - Cardiff (14th) 13 April (H) - Coventry (9th) Assuming Mowbray then fully returns to manage the team after 8 weeks, he will be left with just three games in the season: 20 April (A) - Rotherham (24th) 27 April (A) - Huddersfield (19th) 4 May (H) - Norwich (7th) If we keep up the assumption that Mowbray will return after 8 weeks, Venus will be in charge for another 10 games. 6 of those 10 are against teams currently sitting in the top half of the table and it also includes QPR away - quite possibly one of the most important games left in the season. According to his Wikipedia page, Venus has managed a total of 22 games. TWENTY TWO. We're potentially asking him to manage 10 more games with essentially zero managerial experience with a lot hanging on the line here. If shit hits the fan during his caretaker run, what actually happens? I doubt Mowbray can come back early but do they have a contingency plan? Because it's entirely probable to me that Venus is out of his depth and we may have to look elsewhere to save our season. Looking at our run of games to end the season has scared the shit out of me, quite frankly. It's now struck me that we have a completely unknown quantity in charge in the most crucial of time periods. I can't help but think that we are yet again staring down the barrel of relegation and Mowbray won't have a lot of time to turn it around if it all goes tits up and IF he even comes back at all before the season ends. Would also add alot of fans said it will be our home form will keep us up. Well that has been blown out of the water this week against 2 teams thar probably had nothing to play for. Cov and norwich both prob be still fighting for playoff places which makes preston and cardiff must wins imo. Said before last 2 we need at least 4 points, and will say the same again over the bank holiday weekend. Forget performances and losing we need to score a fackin goal and get some points on the board. Some fans are easily pleased whilst we walking into relegation because we played better than we did tues, we played better against a very average side and still lost today. |
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Post by bubba on Mar 16, 2024 23:47:13 GMT
Would also add alot of fans said it will be our home form will keep us up. Well that has been blown out of the water this week against 2 teams thar probably had nothing to play for. Cov and norwich both prob be still fighting for playoff places which makes preston and cardiff must wins imo. Said before last 2 we need at least 4 points, and will say the same again over the bank holiday weekend. Forget performances and losing we need to score a fackin goal and get some points on the board. Some fans are easily pleased whilst we walking into relegation because we played better than we did tues, we played better against a very average side and still lost today.
Do you feel better now?
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Post by BluenoseB on Mar 16, 2024 23:54:43 GMT
Would also add alot of fans said it will be our home form will keep us up. Well that has been blown out of the water this week against 2 teams thar probably had nothing to play for. Cov and norwich both prob be still fighting for playoff places which makes preston and cardiff must wins imo. Said before last 2 we need at least 4 points, and will say the same again over the bank holiday weekend. Forget performances and losing we need to score a fackin goal and get some points on the board. Some fans are easily pleased whilst we walking into relegation because we played better than we did tues, we played better against a very average side and still lost today.
Do you feel better now?
With what? |
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Post by bubba on Mar 17, 2024 0:04:42 GMT
digging other blues fans out, and for what having a more optmistic outlook? Hardly seems worthy of mocking them, each to their own I suppose. If I'm wrong and you were talking about some other fans of other clubs entirely then unreserved apologies.
Bignumbernine doesn't want to engage, doesn't want to hear about performances and context, he just wants to sound off and get it off his chest, no problem I get it and will leave him be. I and others want to take the positives and see the whole picture, it doesn't mean we are the enemy, that is all.
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Post by BluenoseB on Mar 17, 2024 0:33:56 GMT
digging other blues fans out, and for what having a more optmistic outlook? Hardly seems worthy of mocking them, each to their own I suppose. If I'm wrong and you were talking about some other fans of other clubs entirely then unreserved apologies.
Bignumbernine doesn't want to engage, doesn't want to hear about performances and context, he just wants to sound off and get it off his chest, no problem I get it and will leave him be. I and others want to take the positives and see the whole picture, it doesn't mean we are the enemy, that is all.
If its digging other fans out by saying their easily pleased with today fair enough. Had the same discussion with fans under rooney who wer happy with the glimpes of good play under him, and as i said then its paramount bar anything we get enough points to maintain our league status. At the moment 1 point and 1 goal in 6 games isnt gonna do it. It might be better going down under these owners than than the previous ones, but still relegation and a tougher league to get out of. Forget implemnting styles now its about points, couldnt care less if we win with 20% or 90% possesion that change can be done over the summer as it always should of been. This isnt 1st 10 games where im thinking ok we carry on playing like this the results will come. We got 8 to go and quite frankly after last 2 if we carrying on playing like this (not scoring) we go down. So me like many others who wer at the game and in the pubs after game had the same kind of feeling. Sorry if thats not as postitive as you but thats just people calling how they see ther here and now, not the bigger picture. |
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Post by bubba on Mar 17, 2024 1:15:30 GMT
digging other blues fans out, and for what having a more optmistic outlook? Hardly seems worthy of mocking them, each to their own I suppose. If I'm wrong and you were talking about some other fans of other clubs entirely then unreserved apologies.
Bignumbernine doesn't want to engage, doesn't want to hear about performances and context, he just wants to sound off and get it off his chest, no problem I get it and will leave him be. I and others want to take the positives and see the whole picture, it doesn't mean we are the enemy, that is all.
If its digging other fans out by saying their easily pleased with today fair enough. Had the same discussion with fans under rooney who wer happy with the glimpes of good play under him, and as i said then its paramount bar anything we get enough points to maintain our league status. At the moment 1 point and 1 goal in 6 games isnt gonna do it. It might be better going down under these owners than than the previous ones, but still relegation and a tougher league to get out of. Forget implemnting styles now its about points, couldnt care less if we win with 20% or 90% possesion that change can be done over the summer as it always should of been. This isnt 1st 10 games where im thinking ok we carry on playing like this the results will come. We got 8 to go and quite frankly after last 2 if we carrying on playing like this (not scoring) we go down. So me like many others who wer at the game and in the pubs after game had the same kind of feeling. Sorry if thats not as postitive as you but thats just people calling how they see ther here and now, not the bigger picture.
That's all your opinion and that's fine, I even have sympathy with large elements of it, but the 'some fans are easily pleased' comment was a passive aggressive put down of other blues fans who you feel aren't being negative enough, subtle enough to not be seen as a direct slagging, but not so subtle as to not be noticed, I mean otherwise what would be the point of typing it?
I just think you can make all the points you do without that silliness, play the ball not the man. If your argument is strong enough you shouldn't need to bolster it with that kind of thing, leave it to the chunts in Westminster, just say I disagree and here's why. It's not like I think you're talking bollocks and contrary to how I think some perceive it I'm not sipping a margherita dreaming of our Summer spending, I am concerned and don't want to go down.
I also totally get what you and others say that it's all about results now, it is but where I disagree is when fans say performances don't matter. I say they do and the more times we put in better performances the better our results will ultimately be, would anybody really argue that's wrong? So for me pointing out that actually despite terrible reslts performances haven't been as bad and that refs have fcuked us, we all know this, then it should give at least a little more hope than thinking we've lost 5 out of 6 and don't know where the next point or goal is coming from. At least it does for me and not because I'm a happy clapper, I've been a right moany chunt over the years but it's what I believe to be true. Will I be right at the end of the season? Fcuk knows, I hope so.
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Post by bubba on Mar 17, 2024 1:22:31 GMT
As an aside, Cleverly in his aftermatch comments said
"I thought Birmingham played well today. I came to their game on Tuesday and saw they were in quite a flat way, but today I thought they were excellent"
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Post by bubba on Mar 17, 2024 1:25:53 GMT
He also said the result was all that mattered though no manager says that when their team have played well but yes like some of you are saying the result was the biggest deal of all.
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? No midweek game Dozzell especially match fit, Paik I can understand Sunjic coming on
