|
Post by tonyhancock on Nov 23, 2021 15:46:36 GMT
I disgree and see no distinction between one group making choices that put them in hospital and another group doing the same, perhaps the difference is whether or not you agree with one group's choices and less on the notion of there being no distinction ultimately, just saying.
Because the smokers or the drinkers have not single-handedly shafted the NHS or the day to day workings of the country where as Covid has. That's the difference. Sorry to butt in, but I feel that's down to the reaction to covid. The disease did not stop anyone working, or cancel anyone's hospital appointment. I think most people would prioritise their livelihood, over a virus which (unless they're fcuked anyway) probably won't kill them. I would think, most healthy people would rather be diagnosed with covid, than cancer. In fact, I would have thought, most people with cancer, would have covid over more cancer. In any case, having a jab does not stop you getting covid. Not drinking too much, will save your liver. We are told, having the jab, will lessen the symptoms of covid. Well, all I know is, the same people have been less than honest. Actually, if true, the jab makes it worse, because if you were to have very little symptoms (just up from none), at least you would know you were ill, and to stay at home. This jab, if believed, would stop you realising you were ill.
|
|
|
Post by bubba on Nov 23, 2021 15:57:15 GMT
BTW
As an aside I'd also add that if I were misfortunate enough to one day be diagnosed with some form of cancer, I would refuse chemotherapy. It's a decision I made many years ago that if put in that situation I would seek alternate therapies, again my choice. Obviously I hope that never happens and wouldn't presume to tell others what they should do including loved ones who make the same choice (and I know some would from discussions with them) as it is and should be their choice.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2021 15:58:54 GMT
Because the smokers or the drinkers have not single-handedly shafted the NHS or the day to day workings of the country where as Covid has. That's the difference. Sorry to butt in, but I feel that's down to the reaction to covid. The disease did not stop anyone working, or cancel anyone's hospital appointment. I think most people would prioritise their livelihood, over a virus which (unless they're fcuked anyway) probably won't kill them. I would think, most healthy people would rather be diagnosed with covid, than cancer. In fact, I would have thought, most people with cancer, would have covid over more cancer. In any case, having a jab does not stop you getting covid. Not drinking too much, will save your liver. We are told, having the jab, will lessen the symptoms of covid. Well, all I know is, the same people have been less than honest. Actually, if true, the jab makes it worse, because if you were to have very little symptoms (just up from none), at least you would know you were ill, and to stay at home. This jab, if believed, would stop you realising you were ill. Even people that haven't been jabbed can have it yet,have no symptoms.
|
|
|
Post by tonyhancock on Nov 23, 2021 16:07:01 GMT
Sorry to butt in, but I feel that's down to the reaction to covid. The disease did not stop anyone working, or cancel anyone's hospital appointment. I think most people would prioritise their livelihood, over a virus which (unless they're fcuked anyway) probably won't kill them. I would think, most healthy people would rather be diagnosed with covid, than cancer. In fact, I would have thought, most people with cancer, would have covid over more cancer. In any case, having a jab does not stop you getting covid. Not drinking too much, will save your liver. We are told, having the jab, will lessen the symptoms of covid. Well, all I know is, the same people have been less than honest. Actually, if true, the jab makes it worse, because if you were to have very little symptoms (just up from none), at least you would know you were ill, and to stay at home. This jab, if believed, would stop you realising you were ill. Even people that haven't been jabbed can have it yet,have no symptoms. Yes, so we're told. Weird isn't it.
|
|
|
Post by choc on Nov 23, 2021 17:18:05 GMT
Bubba that's not a point of view that's fact. I know I cannot change your decision and respect anyone's right to choose. A very good mate of mine is anti vax and unfortunately he is a Facebook believer. I just hope he doesn't end up in hospital with Covid and he's Asthmatic.🤞🤞
|
|
|
Post by choc on Nov 23, 2021 17:24:35 GMT
Because the smokers or the drinkers have not single-handedly shafted the NHS or the day to day workings of the country where as Covid has. That's the difference. Sorry to butt in, but I feel that's down to the reaction to covid. The disease did not stop anyone working, or cancel anyone's hospital appointment. I think most people would prioritise their livelihood, over a virus which (unless they're fcuked anyway) probably won't kill them. I would think, most healthy people would rather be diagnosed with covid, than cancer. In fact, I would have thought, most people with cancer, would have covid over more cancer. In any case, having a jab does not stop you getting covid. Not drinking too much, will save your liver. We are told, having the jab, will lessen the symptoms of covid. Well, all I know is, the same people have been less than honest. Actually, if true, the jab makes it worse, because if you were to have very little symptoms (just up from none), at least you would know you were ill, and to stay at home. This jab, if believed, would stop you realising you were ill. So all the scientist and doctors across the world who believe in the vaccine are wrong then.
|
|
|
Post by Will on Nov 23, 2021 17:27:00 GMT
I disgree and see no distinction between one group making choices that put them in hospital and another group doing the same, perhaps the difference is whether or not you agree with one group's choices and less on the notion of there being no distinction ultimately, just saying.
Because the smokers or the drinkers have not single-handedly shafted the NHS or the day to day workings of the country where as Covid has. That's the difference. Plus the fact that they've paid enormous amounts of tax when buying their fags and booze.
|
|
|
Post by Will on Nov 23, 2021 17:38:10 GMT
I've only got your best interests at heart Bubba! How many times has that cover been used for human atrocities through history, oh look the good guys are coming to saving us. I mean, I don't know what you were expecting from this thread, but I'm guessing that it was either a) some sort reassurance that your view of the Austrian Government's decision was widely held by others, b) a chance to have a real dust up with anyone who who deviated in any way from your opinion, or c) a chance to justify your own anti-vaxxer stance yet again (which could equally lead to another real dust up.) A- that would be nice - B - you clearly haven't been payng attention for 5 years, I don't have dust ups with anyone - C - OH MY FCUKING GOD, for the tenth time, I'm not an anti-vaxxer, it's a proven medical technology that saves lives, I and I know many others are wary of these specific fast tracked vaccines - You really need to ease up on the labelling of others, especially when you're ascribing it to people it doesn't apply to. I realise amongst the hard of thinking it can appear to legitimise your argument by virtue of labelling your adversary in some derogatory and highly humorous way, but most know better and see it for what it is, weak argument attack the person, it's an old and poor debating technique.I find the comparison with the post-Brexit situation quite bizarre - attempting to compare people who wanted to have a second referendum once the full details of the Withdrawal Agreement were known (which would in all likelihood have resulted in the same decision to leave, and would have silenced any further argument on the subject) to a National Government which has made an anti-democratic decision without consulting its people, is plain ridiculous. You've twisted what I was saying to better suit the wrong interpretation you first tried, what I was saying was in the immediate aftermath of the result you had tens of thousands of those who voted to remain exploring every possibility, legal or otherwise to overturn the result or have a second referendum, indeed some are still at it. The greater point of this greater even than the vote itself was that these MINORITY of remain voters couldn't see past their immediate need to have their own way and ignored the bigger picture of what their actions if successful would have meant for democracy and freedom - THIS IS THE POINT AND WHAT'S BEING COMPARED, USING CAPS SO IT DOESN'T GET LOST IN TRANSLATION.So putting all of the above together, I can only suspect that you were after a little from column b) and a little from column c), and that you were quite disappointed to receive a lot from column a) instead. Which is a shame. WRONG WRONG WRONG There is enough to worry about in the world what with Governments both near and far imposing all sorts of horrible laws on their inhabitants AGREED without having to worry about whether fellow Blues fans on a forum share your entirely reasonable views on such things. But if you think that it's worth discussing that sort of thing full in the knowledge that everybody else is likely to agree with you (especially when there is plenty of evidence in the thread to prove that), then who am I to cancel you? AGREEDRight, I'm just off to start a thread entitled "Today, in the UK, at time of posting, it is Tuesday", and I'm looking forward to a right royal dust up! I hope that no-one will attempt to cancel cancel cancel my thread.
Finally, it took a while but we got there in the end, other folk can have threads about topics they choose, blimey was like pulling teeth that.
Yes I did want to satisfy myself that most on here would agree it would be wrong for the UK government to try and pull this. Despte your claims that it was obvious, I know from wider social media reading that it is not quite the certainty you claim it to be. Further in the polarised world we've been beamed into these last 5 years it seems extreme anti human views are increasingly seen by some as acceptable.
I want people to think before they bracket other human beings as being in some way less than themselves, because even those who consider themselves champions of 'the people' particularly where colour, culture, gender and sexual orientation are concerned are in my estimation just as guilty as others towards people, human beings all, who don't fall in to their protection zone of minorities. We are all free, we all have rights, differences of opinion shouldn't cloud that.
For someone who gets upset about me misrepresenting posts, you sure manage to misrepresent mine pretty successfully. And I still don't get the Brexit connection in this particular context. It's interesting though, if we're going to bring the EU into this, that the Austrian Government, as foolish as it has been to try to introduce this legislation, is merely exerting its own sovereignty by doing so. Which is something that the Brexiteers claimed that the UK was unable to do within the confines of the EU. Ironic, eh? Had to laugh at your claim that you don't enjoy a bit of a barney, btw. This thread would seem to suggest otherwise.
|
|
|
Post by tonyhancock on Nov 23, 2021 17:43:30 GMT
Sorry to butt in, but I feel that's down to the reaction to covid. The disease did not stop anyone working, or cancel anyone's hospital appointment. I think most people would prioritise their livelihood, over a virus which (unless they're fcuked anyway) probably won't kill them. I would think, most healthy people would rather be diagnosed with covid, than cancer. In fact, I would have thought, most people with cancer, would have covid over more cancer. In any case, having a jab does not stop you getting covid. Not drinking too much, will save your liver. We are told, having the jab, will lessen the symptoms of covid. Well, all I know is, the same people have been less than honest. Actually, if true, the jab makes it worse, because if you were to have very little symptoms (just up from none), at least you would know you were ill, and to stay at home. This jab, if believed, would stop you realising you were ill. So all the scientist and doctors across the world who believe in the vaccine are wrong then. They may be. Just as those who aren't so convinced, may be wrong. What is generally agreed is, it doesn't stop you catching or spreading, anything. We are told by officialdom, it reduces the effects of the virus. Something difficult to verify, as the effects vary from person to person, from death to no effects at all. How would they know what difference it makes. Add on top of that, lying governments don't pay people to dis-agree with them. They also play down the negative effects. They don't spread news of negative effects all over the news, and certainly don't lump in all people who died of something completely unrelated, with deaths within 21 days of taking the clot shot. Unless this is planned far earlier than I think it is, there can be no way of knowing for sure what side effects there will be, years from now. It has been cleared for emergency use only. The only people with immunity, are the drug companies, from prosecution or liability. It was discussed in the House of Commons that some people are getting a placebo. What does that tell you?
|
|
|
Post by bubba on Nov 23, 2021 18:12:33 GMT
For someone who gets upset about me misrepresenting posts, you sure manage to misrepresent mine pretty successfully. I don't think I have but apologise if I have done so.And I still don't get the Brexit connection in this particular context. It's interesting though, if we're going to bring the EU into this, that the Austrian Government, as foolish as it has been to try to introduce this legislation, is merely exerting its own sovereignty by doing so. Which is something that the Brexiteers claimed that the UK was unable to do within the confines of the EU. Ironic, eh? That is a good point tbf, thought you was going somewhere silly with it but yeah fair observation and I have to confess my own ignorance on how the EU as an entity or the individal members have reacted to Austria's move. Match night so probably won't get round to it tonight but will defnitely look into that. (and report back on here if it supports an anti-EU narrative )Had to laugh at your claim that you don't enjoy a bit of a barney, btw. This thread would seem to suggest otherwise. I have no idea what you mean.
|
|
|
Post by choc on Nov 23, 2021 20:49:27 GMT
So all the scientist and doctors across the world who believe in the vaccine are wrong then. They may be. Just as those who aren't so convinced, may be wrong. What is generally agreed is, it doesn't stop you catching or spreading, anything. We are told by officialdom, it reduces the effects of the virus. Something difficult to verify, as the effects vary from person to person, from death to no effects at all. How would they know what difference it makes. Add on top of that, lying governments don't pay people to dis-agree with them. They also play down the negative effects. They don't spread news of negative effects all over the news, and certainly don't lump in all people who died of something completely unrelated, with deaths within 21 days of taking the clot shot. Unless this is planned far earlier than I think it is, there can be no way of knowing for sure what side effects there will be, years from now. It has been cleared for emergency use only. The only people with immunity, are the drug companies, from prosecution or liability. It was discussed in the House of Commons that some people are getting a placebo. What does that tell you? But they massively out number the doctors and scientists that don't believe in it Most vaccines don't stop you from getting it but what it does do is keeps a lot out of hospital and possibly losing their lives that was happening in great numbers. If there was negative effect, don't you think the likes of the BBC and the rest of the world press would be reporting it How many cases of clots has there been across the billions of shots given Vaccine development has moved on since the 50s and 60s together with a massive development world wide. Placebos are used for all drug development Funny I never had you down as a Facebook believer 😁
|
|
|
Post by tonyhancock on Nov 23, 2021 22:13:00 GMT
They may be. Just as those who aren't so convinced, may be wrong. What is generally agreed is, it doesn't stop you catching or spreading, anything. We are told by officialdom, it reduces the effects of the virus. Something difficult to verify, as the effects vary from person to person, from death to no effects at all. How would they know what difference it makes. Add on top of that, lying governments don't pay people to dis-agree with them. They also play down the negative effects. They don't spread news of negative effects all over the news, and certainly don't lump in all people who died of something completely unrelated, with deaths within 21 days of taking the clot shot. Unless this is planned far earlier than I think it is, there can be no way of knowing for sure what side effects there will be, years from now. It has been cleared for emergency use only. The only people with immunity, are the drug companies, from prosecution or liability. It was discussed in the House of Commons that some people are getting a placebo. What does that tell you? 1. But they massively out number the doctors and scientists that don't believe in it 2. Most vaccines don't stop you from getting it but what it does do is keeps a lot out of hospital and possibly losing their lives that was happening in great numbers. 3. If there was negative effect, don't you think the likes of the BBC and the rest of the world press would be reporting it 4. How many cases of clots has there been across the billions of shots given 5. Vaccine development has moved on since the 50s and 60s together with a massive development world wide. 6. Placebos are used for all drug development 7. Funny I never had you down as a Facebook believer 😁 1. Maybe, but how do we know. You've put a lot of time and money into becoming a doctor. Given up a lot. You've made it, have a mortgage, wife & kids. You're going to get sacked over 'mis-information'. Divorce, hardship, lose everything ? Probably not. Probably just not get jabbed personally, and hope for the best. Enough front line workers have decided to not get jabbed, to have the government threaten them with the sack. This is not down to a lack of persuasion, and government sponsored advice. This doesn't inspire any thought on your side ? 2. That is not my understanding of a vaccine. 3. There are and they don't. If you trust them, that's fine. 4. I don't know. I also don't know how many deaths have been due to nothing but covid. 5. I would hope so 6. During a mass roll out, and made compulsory ? 7. I'm not on Facebook. It's run by the same people who rum MSM I've stated my reasons to have doubts. I think they are valid, even if they prove unwarranted. I've listed a few questions I think people should ask themselves. I think if you're in the 'yes' answer category, as you seem to be, that's fine. Personally, I can't understand where you get your trust from.
|
|
|
Post by choc on Nov 24, 2021 9:56:35 GMT
So who do we trust. Do we trust the the gas engineer who tells you your gas fire is perfectly safe when if he gets it wrong you and your family are potentially dead. Do we trust the doctors who tell us we don't have cancer Do we trust the doctors who tell us we do have cancer and their recommendations for treatments is our best way to deal with it. You cannot go through life not trusting anything or anyone. If you don't believe in the vaccine thats fine with me but if you were in charge, how would you tackle Covid? I have yet to see an anti vac give an answer to this question Are you on Twitter then😁
|
|
|
Post by bubba on Nov 24, 2021 11:36:48 GMT
For the record I'm not an anti-vaxxer, in fact though the term is tossed around like a flat earth slur, to the best of my knowledge the vast majority of those refusing these vaccines, aren't in fact anti-vaxxers. It won't stop people using the term the same as anybody saying they don't believe the official 9/11 story or that Oswald didn't kill JFK are labelled flat earthers or asked if the moon is hollow, it's pure cancel culture where people won't engage in discussion and instead in a child like way connect nonsense theories to legitimate historical inconsistencies with the official narrative in order to gaslight the other person.
I'm not on twitter, don't have an account.
I briefly had a faceache account purely for work purposes, when that was no longer required the account was closed.
I'm not on any other social media, this is the only place I post opinions, I used to comment on news articles until they insisted on data mining me in order to comment so haven't done so for years.
I don't own a mobile phone, I had a cheap 5 quid one for years that I almost never used but no longer own it.
I've never owned a smart phone
I haven't watched tel lie vision for 14/15 years
I research things myself and try to read opposing views to see if they have merit, sometimes they do.
I don't own a tin foil hat, but if I see compelling evidence in the future suggesting strong benefits, I may invest in one, or even two.
|
|
|
Post by Will on Nov 24, 2021 12:04:50 GMT
So who do we trust. Do we trust the the gas engineer who tells you your gas fire is perfectly safe when if he gets it wrong you and your family are potentially dead. Do we trust the doctors who tell us we don't have cancer Do we trust the doctors who tell us we do have cancer and their recommendations for treatments is our best way to deal with it. You cannot go through life not trusting anything or anyone. If you don't believe in the vaccine thats fine with me but if you were in charge, how would you tackle Covid? I have yet to see an anti vac give an answer to this question Are you on Twitter then😁 Some excellent points there Choccy Boy!
|
|
|
Post by bruminoz on Nov 24, 2021 12:54:49 GMT
Saw the headline the other day and thought oooh fcuk, then realised it was Austria not Australia, wife and kids have all had the jab, wife is Real Estate, kids both at McDonald's, won't have a job if they don't have it.
I'm still on the fence being an experimental drug, and being born in 1961, around the time of another experimental drug being Thalidomide and growing up with a number of affected kids, who DIDN'T have a choice, My Body..My Choice
|
|
|
Post by tonyhancock on Nov 24, 2021 14:26:11 GMT
1. So who do we trust. Do we trust the the gas engineer who tells you your gas fire is perfectly safe when if he gets it wrong you and your family are potentially dead. Do we trust the doctors who tell us we don't have cancer Do we trust the doctors who tell us we do have cancer and their recommendations for treatments is our best way to deal with it. You cannot go through life not trusting anything or anyone. 2. If you don't believe in the vaccine thats fine with me but if you were in charge, how would you tackle Covid? I have yet to see an anti vac give an answer to this question 3. Are you on Twitter then😁 1. We have to work that out for ourselves. Our original thoughts may well change, as more information comes to light. I would suggest you don't trust, or be highly sceptical of people who: Tell you it's vitally important to do something, then do the opposite themselves. In fact, it's easy. Go back to my five basic questions. If you feel that with all points raised, the government is spot on, then by all means carry on as you are. 2. Fund research. Invite doctors & scientists to speak their minds openly. Recommend vigilance and cleanliness. Encourage good diet & keeping healthy, especially fitness levels, control the fcuking borders / close them, off the top of head. I wouldn't wreck the economy & people's lives, have a biblical amount of double standards, tell blatant lies, rush through an experimental drug, threaten or punish anyone who is sceptical, give immunity to the drug companies, have open borders for anyone who isn't British, sack any health care worker for speaking out, prioritise covid over every other health issue, confine healthy people to their homes, use a test which wasn't designed for the virus and come out with shit like "It is vitally important that everyone wears a mask. Everyone is required to wear one. Unless you're exempt. Including causes you undue stress. Then it doesn't really matter" 3. Oh hell no. I very much doubt I'd last a week, before getting kicked off, anyway.
|
|
|
Post by tonyhancock on Nov 24, 2021 14:29:06 GMT
Saw the headline the other day and thought oooh fcuk, then realised it was Austria not Australia, wife and kids have all had the jab, wife is Real Estate, kids both at McDonald's, won't have a job if they don't have it. I'm still on the fence being an experimental drug, and being born in 1961, around the time of another experimental drug being Thalidomide and growing up with a number of affected kids, who DIDN'T have a choice, My Body..My Choice My understanding is, the authorities in Australia, make ours look like Principal Skinner. What's your view ?
|
|
|
Post by choc on Nov 24, 2021 15:42:21 GMT
1. So who do we trust. Do we trust the the gas engineer who tells you your gas fire is perfectly safe when if he gets it wrong you and your family are potentially dead. Do we trust the doctors who tell us we don't have cancer Do we trust the doctors who tell us we do have cancer and their recommendations for treatments is our best way to deal with it. You cannot go through life not trusting anything or anyone. 2. If you don't believe in the vaccine thats fine with me but if you were in charge, how would you tackle Covid? I have yet to see an anti vac give an answer to this question 3. Are you on Twitter then😁 1. We have to work that out for ourselves. Our original thoughts may well change, as more information comes to light. I would suggest you don't trust, or be highly sceptical of people who: Tell you it's vitally important to do something, then do the opposite themselves. In fact, it's easy. Go back to my five basic questions. If you feel that with all points raised, the government is spot on, then by all means carry on as you are. 2. Fund research. Invite doctors & scientists to speak their minds openly. Recommend vigilance and cleanliness. Encourage good diet & keeping healthy, especially fitness levels, control the fcuking borders / close them, off the top of head. I wouldn't wreck the economy & people's lives, have a biblical amount of double standards, tell blatant lies, rush through an experimental drug, threaten or punish anyone who is sceptical, give immunity to the drug companies, have open borders for anyone who isn't British, sack any health care worker for speaking out, prioritise covid over every other health issue, confine healthy people to their homes, use a test which wasn't designed for the virus and come out with shit like "It is vitally important that everyone wears a mask. Everyone is required to wear one. Unless you're exempt. Including causes you undue stress. Then it doesn't really matter" 3. Oh hell no. I very much doubt I'd last a week, before getting kicked off, anyway. So still not offering any alternative to the vaccine then which is working. Nothing changes
|
|
|
Post by tonyhancock on Nov 24, 2021 16:52:33 GMT
1. We have to work that out for ourselves. Our original thoughts may well change, as more information comes to light. I would suggest you don't trust, or be highly sceptical of people who: Tell you it's vitally important to do something, then do the opposite themselves. In fact, it's easy. Go back to my five basic questions. If you feel that with all points raised, the government is spot on, then by all means carry on as you are. 2. Fund research. Invite doctors & scientists to speak their minds openly. Recommend vigilance and cleanliness. Encourage good diet & keeping healthy, especially fitness levels, control the fcuking borders / close them, off the top of head. I wouldn't wreck the economy & people's lives, have a biblical amount of double standards, tell blatant lies, rush through an experimental drug, threaten or punish anyone who is sceptical, give immunity to the drug companies, have open borders for anyone who isn't British, sack any health care worker for speaking out, prioritise covid over every other health issue, confine healthy people to their homes, use a test which wasn't designed for the virus and come out with shit like "It is vitally important that everyone wears a mask. Everyone is required to wear one. Unless you're exempt. Including causes you undue stress. Then it doesn't really matter" 3. Oh hell no. I very much doubt I'd last a week, before getting kicked off, anyway. So still not offering any alternative to the vaccine then which is working. Nothing changes 'Fund research. Invite doctors & scientists to speak their minds openly. Recommend vigilance and cleanliness. Encourage good diet & keeping healthy, especially fitness levels, control the fcuking borders / close them, off the top of head'. I've not been asked, before. It isn't working as a vaccine. A vaccine will make you immune, if it works. They can't lie about that. They claim taking the vaccine is safer than not. It may or may not be, but I wouldn't take their word for it. In any event, bubba's post, I think, was not to convince anyone of anything, but to get a gist of people's thoughts regarding compulsory vaccination, and the wider implications. I think the results are as follows: Regarding the implications, precedent, principle & future, only bubba & I have given it any thought. Regarding compulsory vaccination bubba & I - horrified Now this is what I think. I'm not speaking for anyone else, this is just my opinion stevo - would vote against it being compulsory, but wouldn't be over bothered if it was EPJ - much the same will - didn't want compulsory jabs questioned - all for them bluenose68 - Not comfortable with mandatory vaccinations, but thinks incentivising them is a good idea. I think he also thinks coerced into taking them, is fine. Much in line with government so far. I think he'd be fine with making life unbearable for people, until they got the shot 'voluntarily' yourself - think the unvaxed are lower than the worst drug addict. Government doing a splendid job. Between 68 and will. Much closer to will bruminoz - against
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2021 17:01:47 GMT
So still not offering any alternative to the vaccine then which is working. Nothing changes 'Fund research. Invite doctors & scientists to speak their minds openly. Recommend vigilance and cleanliness. Encourage good diet & keeping healthy, especially fitness levels, control the fcuking borders / close them, off the top of head'. I've not been asked, before. It isn't working as a vaccine. A vaccine will make you immune, if it works. They can't lie about that. They claim taking the vaccine is safer than not. It may or may not be, but I wouldn't take their word for it. In any event, bubba's post, I think, was not to convince anyone of anything, but to get a gist of people's thoughts regarding compulsory vaccination, and the wider implications. I think the results are as follows: Regarding the implications, precedent, principle & future, only bubba & I have given it any thought. Regarding compulsory vaccination bubba & I - horrified Now this is what I think. I'm not speaking for anyone else, this is just my opinion stevo - would vote against it being compulsory, but wouldn't be over bothered if it was EPJ - much the same will - didn't want compulsory jabs questioned - all for them bluenose68 - Not comfortable with mandatory vaccinations, but thinks incentivising them is a good idea. I think he also thinks coerced into taking them, is fine. Much in line with government so far. I think he'd be fine with making life unbearable for people, until they got the shot 'voluntarily' yourself - think the unvaxed are lower than the worst drug addict. Government doing a splendid job. Between 68 and will. Much closer to will bruminoz - against I haven't said i wouldn't be over bothered if it was made compulsory
|
|
|
Post by tonyhancock on Nov 24, 2021 17:10:15 GMT
'Fund research. Invite doctors & scientists to speak their minds openly. Recommend vigilance and cleanliness. Encourage good diet & keeping healthy, especially fitness levels, control the fcuking borders / close them, off the top of head'. I've not been asked, before. It isn't working as a vaccine. A vaccine will make you immune, if it works. They can't lie about that. They claim taking the vaccine is safer than not. It may or may not be, but I wouldn't take their word for it. In any event, bubba's post, I think, was not to convince anyone of anything, but to get a gist of people's thoughts regarding compulsory vaccination, and the wider implications. I think the results are as follows: Regarding the implications, precedent, principle & future, only bubba & I have given it any thought. Regarding compulsory vaccination bubba & I - horrified Now this is what I think. I'm not speaking for anyone else, this is just my opinion
stevo - would vote against it being compulsory, but wouldn't be over bothered if it was EPJ - much the same will - didn't want compulsory jabs questioned - all for them bluenose68 - Not comfortable with mandatory vaccinations, but thinks incentivising them is a good idea. I think he also thinks coerced into taking them, is fine. Much in line with government so far. I think he'd be fine with making life unbearable for people, until they got the shot 'voluntarily' yourself - think the unvaxed are lower than the worst drug addict. Government doing a splendid job. Between 68 and will. Much closer to will bruminoz - against I haven't said i wouldn't be over bothered if it was made compulsory Yes, I know (see above). It's just my impression. Great, we're back on track, please elaborate.
|
|
|
Post by Will on Nov 24, 2021 18:04:04 GMT
So still not offering any alternative to the vaccine then which is working. Nothing changes 'Fund research. Invite doctors & scientists to speak their minds openly. Recommend vigilance and cleanliness. Encourage good diet & keeping healthy, especially fitness levels, control the fcuking borders / close them, off the top of head'. I've not been asked, before. It isn't working as a vaccine. A vaccine will make you immune, if it works. They can't lie about that. They claim taking the vaccine is safer than not. It may or may not be, but I wouldn't take their word for it. In any event, bubba's post, I think, was not to convince anyone of anything, but to get a gist of people's thoughts regarding compulsory vaccination, and the wider implications. I think the results are as follows: Regarding the implications, precedent, principle & future, only bubba & I have given it any thought. Regarding compulsory vaccination bubba & I - horrified Now this is what I think. I'm not speaking for anyone else, this is just my opinion stevo - would vote against it being compulsory, but wouldn't be over bothered if it was EPJ - much the same will - didn't want compulsory jabs questioned - all for thembluenose68 - Not comfortable with mandatory vaccinations, but thinks incentivising them is a good idea. I think he also thinks coerced into taking them, is fine. Much in line with government so far. I think he'd be fine with making life unbearable for people, until they got the shot 'voluntarily' yourself - think the unvaxed are lower than the worst drug addict. Government doing a splendid job. Between 68 and will. Much closer to will bruminoz - against 100% a LIE! Either that or you simply haven't read all of my posts properly. If you can't be bothered to do so DON'T fcuking WELL USE MY NAME IN YOUR POSTS. If you're simply going to lie about my posts, then it's about time EPJ carried through on his threat to ban you if you continued to post on this forum. For the benefit of others (because I've now given up caring what you post Tony), I have said on this very thread that I am AGAINST compulsory vaccination. Totally against them. Hopefully this will clear matters up for those posters who may have been confused by Tony's mendacious post. As for you Tony, fcuk RIGHT OFF.
|
|
|
Post by tonyhancock on Nov 24, 2021 18:20:13 GMT
'Fund research. Invite doctors & scientists to speak their minds openly. Recommend vigilance and cleanliness. Encourage good diet & keeping healthy, especially fitness levels, control the fcuking borders / close them, off the top of head'. I've not been asked, before. It isn't working as a vaccine. A vaccine will make you immune, if it works. They can't lie about that. They claim taking the vaccine is safer than not. It may or may not be, but I wouldn't take their word for it. In any event, bubba's post, I think, was not to convince anyone of anything, but to get a gist of people's thoughts regarding compulsory vaccination, and the wider implications. I think the results are as follows: Regarding the implications, precedent, principle & future, only bubba & I have given it any thought. Regarding compulsory vaccination bubba & I - horrified Now this is what I think. I'm not speaking for anyone else, this is just my opinion stevo - would vote against it being compulsory, but wouldn't be over bothered if it was EPJ - much the same will - didn't want compulsory jabs questioned - all for thembluenose68 - Not comfortable with mandatory vaccinations, but thinks incentivising them is a good idea. I think he also thinks coerced into taking them, is fine. Much in line with government so far. I think he'd be fine with making life unbearable for people, until they got the shot 'voluntarily' yourself - think the unvaxed are lower than the worst drug addict. Government doing a splendid job. Between 68 and will. Much closer to will bruminoz - against 1. 100% a LIE! 2. Either that or you simply haven't read all of my posts properly. If you can't be bothered to do so DON'T fcuking WELL USE MY NAME IN YOUR POSTS. If you're simply going to lie about my posts, then it's about time EPJ carried through on his threat to ban you if you continued to post on this forum. 3. For the benefit of others (because I've now given up caring what you post Tony), I have said on this very thread that I am AGAINST compulsory vaccination. Totally against them. Hopefully this will clear matters up for those posters who may have been confused by Tony's mendacious post. 4. As for you Tony, fcuk RIGHT OFF. 1. It's not a lie, it's my opinion. I stated it's my opinion, and it is. You could claim it's 100% wrong. 2. I did read them. In my OPINION, you like nothing more than people being forced to do what you want. Or being persuaded to, in EPJ's case. 3. I've heard that before, too. So just against people discussing it, then. 4. No Though do feel free to state exactly what your thoughts are, regarding how the government should go about getting a needle in everyone's arm.
|
|
|
Post by bubba on Nov 24, 2021 18:44:17 GMT
'Fund research. Invite doctors & scientists to speak their minds openly. Recommend vigilance and cleanliness. Encourage good diet & keeping healthy, especially fitness levels, control the fcuking borders / close them, off the top of head'. I've not been asked, before. It isn't working as a vaccine. A vaccine will make you immune, if it works. They can't lie about that. They claim taking the vaccine is safer than not. It may or may not be, but I wouldn't take their word for it. In any event, bubba's post, I think, was not to convince anyone of anything, but to get a gist of people's thoughts regarding compulsory vaccination, and the wider implications. I think the results are as follows: Regarding the implications, precedent, principle & future, only bubba & I have given it any thought. Regarding compulsory vaccination bubba & I - horrified Now this is what I think. I'm not speaking for anyone else, this is just my opinion stevo - would vote against it being compulsory, but wouldn't be over bothered if it was EPJ - much the same will - didn't want compulsory jabs questioned - all for thembluenose68 - Not comfortable with mandatory vaccinations, but thinks incentivising them is a good idea. I think he also thinks coerced into taking them, is fine. Much in line with government so far. I think he'd be fine with making life unbearable for people, until they got the shot 'voluntarily' yourself - think the unvaxed are lower than the worst drug addict. Government doing a splendid job. Between 68 and will. Much closer to will bruminoz - against 100% a LIE! Either that or you simply haven't read all of my posts properly. If you can't be bothered to do so DON'T fcuking WELL USE MY NAME IN YOUR POSTS. If you're simply going to lie about my posts, then it's about time EPJ carried through on his threat to ban you if you continued to post on this forum. For the benefit of others (because I've now given up caring what you post Tony), I have said on this very thread that I am AGAINST compulsory vaccination. Totally against them. Hopefully this will clear matters up for those posters who may have been confused by Tony's mendacious post. As for you Tony, fcuk RIGHT OFF.
I'm going to let that pass due to the extreme provocation of Tony's post, I will also confirm Will has on this thread and in at least one previous thread a while back stated he is against Mandatory vaccinations.
Tony you are free to believe whatever you choose, but it's bad form to basically imply he's a liar. It's your opinion but without proof in the form of direct quotes please do not accuse others, especially when they've expressly posted the opposite.
Better yet refrain from posting what you think others believe entirely, it's never going to end well and I wouldn't react well to others telling me what I REALLY think.
|
|
|
Post by Will on Nov 24, 2021 18:45:48 GMT
Which bit of "fcuk RIGHT OFF TONY" do you not understand, you LIAR?
Edit - posted at the same time as Bubba's last post.
|
|
|
Post by tonyhancock on Nov 24, 2021 18:51:32 GMT
Which bit of "fcuk RIGHT OFF TONY" do you not understand, you LIAR? Edit - posted at the same time as Bubba's last post. Is this where you tell everyone else to calm down, again ?
|
|
|
Post by bubba on Nov 24, 2021 19:04:18 GMT
For someone who gets upset about me misrepresenting posts, you sure manage to misrepresent mine pretty successfully. I don't think I have but apologise if I have done so.And I still don't get the Brexit connection in this particular context. It's interesting though, if we're going to bring the EU into this, that the Austrian Government, as foolish as it has been to try to introduce this legislation, is merely exerting its own sovereignty by doing so. Which is something that the Brexiteers claimed that the UK was unable to do within the confines of the EU. Ironic, eh? That is a good point tbf, thought you was going somewhere silly with it but yeah fair observation and I have to confess my own ignorance on how the EU as an entity or the individal members have reacted to Austria's move. Match night so probably won't get round to it tonight but will defnitely look into that. (and report back on here if it supports an anti-EU narrative )Had to laugh at your claim that you don't enjoy a bit of a barney, btw. This thread would seem to suggest otherwise. I have no idea what you mean.
OK I have now spent a couple of hours on and off trying to find the EU position on Austra and have found absolutely nothing, zero, zilch. On the one hand that could be seen as validating your point about exerting their own sovereignty within the EU. However I have to say the deepeer I dug I came to believe there was a darker more nefarious reasoning that had nothing to do with sovereignty.
I am now of the opinion the complete lack of any kind of backlash from the EU or even other member countries is in and of itself a form of tacit approval.
This conclusion was further supported upon findng out that Germany is also strongly considering the same totalitarian approach of manadatory vaccinations (I guess leopards never change their spots) and that contrary to your assertions throughout this thread that I was overplaying the threat and seeking argument, that in fact according to polling done in Germany 70% of their population support manadatory vaccinations which by an amazing coincidence is almost exactly the same as their adult vaccinated percentage, what do you think of that?
Austria waas more around the 50% figure for approval amongst it's population, about 10% under it's adult vaccinated levels (conscientious objectors you'd imaagine?) and again contrary to your assertions simlar high levels amongst populatons in other countries also support manadatory vaccination. Again regardless of country the percentages of adult vaccinated bear striking similarity to the percentages for approval of vaccination by force.
Like you I don't think there's much difference between Brits and Europeans and given that the UK level of vaccination (at least one jab and sso likely to go on to be double jabbed) is now 88%, would you say that in view of the above information, I in fact have much more reason to be concerned than you initially believed?
Without making personal accusations that Tony has, I would also say that asked the direct question are you for or against it on social media may inhibit the answers some people give. An inhibition that annonymous polling seems to quite efficiently dissolve.
|
|
|
Post by tonyhancock on Nov 24, 2021 19:21:27 GMT
I have no idea what you mean.
OK I have now spent a couple of hours on and off trying to find the EU position on Austra and have found absolutely nothing, zero, zilch. On the one hand that could be seen as validating your point about exerting their own sovereignty within the EU. However I have to say the deepeer I dug I came to believe there was a darker more nefarious reasoning that had nothing to do with sovereignty.
I am now of the opinion the complete lack of any kind of backlash from the EU or even other member countries is in and of itself a form of tacit approval.
This conclusion was further supported upon findng out that Germany is also strongly considering the same totalitarian approach of manadatory vaccinations (I guess leopards never change their spots) and that contrary to your assertions throughout this thread that I was overplaying the threat and seeking argument, that in fact according to polling done in Germany 70% of their population support manadatory vaccinations which by an amazing coincidence is almost exactly the same as their adult vaccinated percentage, what do you think of that?
Austria waas more around the 50% figure for approval amongst it's population, about 10% under it's adult vaccinated levels (conscientious objectors you'd imaagine?) and again contrary to your assertions simlar high levels amongst populatons in other countries also support manadatory vaccination. Again regardless of country the percentages of adult vaccinated bear striking similarity to the percentages for approval of vaccination by force.
Like you I don't think there's much difference between Brits and Europeans and given that the UK level of vaccination (at least one jab and sso likely to go on to be double jabbed) is now 88%, would you say that in view of the above information, I in fact have much more reason to be concerned than you initially believed?
Without making personal accusations that Tony has, I would also say that asked the direct question are you for or against it on social media may inhibit the answers some people give. An inhibition that annonymous polling seems to quite efficiently dissolve.
I've mentioned this to you, before. I think it's worse than that. It must be legal as far as EU law is concerned. And these blighters, who it seems we are a member en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Court_of_Human_Rights#Member_states Not only legal, but I'd GUESS full approval, maybe even planned with the EU - agreed that Austria would go first. I'm wary of polls*, and how their questions are framed, who they ask, and what questions they omit. But on the face of it, up to 100% of the people being in favour of mandatory jabs, equalling the number of people who've had them, is worse than I'd feared. * = To everyone's shock, I'm sure It's gone past the jab now. This is much bigger, the jab's only a conduit. Even if I came around to believing the jab is a godsend, I wouldn't take it. I need to know whether or not I will be forced. If I am, I'll know what sort of country I live in, and exactly how free I really am. I fear I already know, not so deep down.
|
|
|
Post by bubba on Nov 24, 2021 19:39:14 GMT
OK I have now spent a couple of hours on and off trying to find the EU position on Austra and have found absolutely nothing, zero, zilch. On the one hand that could be seen as validating your point about exerting their own sovereignty within the EU. However I have to say the deepeer I dug I came to believe there was a darker more nefarious reasoning that had nothing to do with sovereignty.
I am now of the opinion the complete lack of any kind of backlash from the EU or even other member countries is in and of itself a form of tacit approval.
This conclusion was further supported upon findng out that Germany is also strongly considering the same totalitarian approach of manadatory vaccinations (I guess leopards never change their spots) and that contrary to your assertions throughout this thread that I was overplaying the threat and seeking argument, that in fact according to polling done in Germany 70% of their population support manadatory vaccinations which by an amazing coincidence is almost exactly the same as their adult vaccinated percentage, what do you think of that?
Austria waas more around the 50% figure for approval amongst it's population, about 10% under it's adult vaccinated levels (conscientious objectors you'd imaagine?) and again contrary to your assertions simlar high levels amongst populatons in other countries also support manadatory vaccination. Again regardless of country the percentages of adult vaccinated bear striking similarity to the percentages for approval of vaccination by force.
Like you I don't think there's much difference between Brits and Europeans and given that the UK level of vaccination (at least one jab and sso likely to go on to be double jabbed) is now 88%, would you say that in view of the above information, I in fact have much more reason to be concerned than you initially believed?
Without making personal accusations that Tony has, I would also say that asked the direct question are you for or against it on social media may inhibit the answers some people give. An inhibition that annonymous polling seems to quite efficiently dissolve.
I've mentioned this to you, before. I think it's worse than that. It must be legal as far as EU law is concerned. And these blighters, who it seems we are a member en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Court_of_Human_Rights#Member_states Not only legal, but I'd GUESS full approval, maybe even planned with the EU - agreed that Austria would go first. I'm wary of polls*, and how their questions are framed, who they ask, and what questions they omit. But on the face of it, up to 100% of the people being in favour of mandatory jabs, equalling the number of people who've had them, is worse than I'd feared. Me too, it genuinely really really shocked me and it's hard to shock me where base levels of human nature go, it's why I started this thread, didn't expect much in the way of arguing against my points but was still gladdened by most responses (eventually ) that's been somewhat deflated by what I've read today.* = To everyone's shock, I'm sure It's gone past the jab now. This is much bigger, the jab's only a conduit. Exactly, this is what I was saying when comparing the remainers wanting to overturn the referendum result, the mentality of wanting their way on something regardless of the consequences for everybody including themselves of the fundamental change in the state/citizens dynamic, rule of law and democracy, it's nuts. In their craze for power over other people they'll totally and completely remove the last semblence of individual rights from everybody, anything left after that is window dressing and illusitory.Even if I came around to believing the jab is a godsend, I wouldn't take it. I need to know whether or not I will be forced. If I am, I'll know what sort of country I live in, and exactly how free I really am. I fear I already know, not so deep down.
Same, as said before I've come pretty close to deciding to get it more than once, this kind of authoritarian overreach is making it HARDER for me to believe the narrative, they're making my position more entrenched.
|
|