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Post by tonyhancock on Nov 24, 2021 19:44:11 GMT
I have no idea what you mean.
OK I have now spent a couple of hours on and off trying to find the EU position on Austra and have found absolutely nothing, zero, zilch. On the one hand that could be seen as validating your point about exerting their own sovereignty within the EU. However I have to say the deepeer I dug I came to believe there was a darker more nefarious reasoning that had nothing to do with sovereignty.
I am now of the opinion the complete lack of any kind of backlash from the EU or even other member countries is in and of itself a form of tacit approval.
This conclusion was further supported upon findng out that Germany is also strongly considering the same totalitarian approach of manadatory vaccinations (I guess leopards never change their spots) and that contrary to your assertions throughout this thread that I was overplaying the threat and seeking argument, that in fact according to polling done in Germany 70% of their population support manadatory vaccinations which by an amazing coincidence is almost exactly the same as their adult vaccinated percentage, what do you think of that?
Austria waas more around the 50% figure for approval amongst it's population, about 10% under it's adult vaccinated levels (conscientious objectors you'd imaagine?) and again contrary to your assertions simlar high levels amongst populatons in other countries also support manadatory vaccination. Again regardless of country the percentages of adult vaccinated bear striking similarity to the percentages for approval of vaccination by force.
Like you I don't think there's much difference between Brits and Europeans and given that the UK level of vaccination (at least one jab and sso likely to go on to be double jabbed) is now 88%, would you say that in view of the above information, I in fact have much more reason to be concerned than you initially believed?
Without making personal accusations that Tony has, I would also say that asked the direct question are you for or against it on social media may inhibit the answers some people give. An inhibition that annonymous polling seems to quite efficiently dissolve.
OK. I didn't mean anything I said as a personal attack on will, or anyone else. I was trying to sum up the findings, as i saw them Having thought about it, I don't think this was wise. I apologise to will, and anyone else who took offence.
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Post by bubba on Nov 24, 2021 19:46:15 GMT
Thankyou.
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Post by tonyhancock on Nov 24, 2021 19:48:45 GMT
Thank you. I only thought about it, because of you. You wouldn't believe it, but sometimes I make mistakes.
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Post by Will on Nov 24, 2021 19:52:24 GMT
I have no idea what you mean.
OK I have now spent a couple of hours on and off trying to find the EU position on Austra and have found absolutely nothing, zero, zilch. On the one hand that could be seen as validating your point about exerting their own sovereignty within the EU. However I have to say the deepeer I dug I came to believe there was a darker more nefarious reasoning that had nothing to do with sovereignty.
I am now of the opinion the complete lack of any kind of backlash from the EU or even other member countries is in and of itself a form of tacit approval.
This conclusion was further supported upon findng out that Germany is also strongly considering the same totalitarian approach of manadatory vaccinations (I guess leopards never change their spots) and that contrary to your assertions throughout this thread that I was overplaying the threat and seeking argument, that in fact according to polling done in Germany 70% of their population support manadatory vaccinations which by an amazing coincidence is almost exactly the same as their adult vaccinated percentage, what do you think of that?
Austria waas more around the 50% figure for approval amongst it's population, about 10% under it's adult vaccinated levels (conscientious objectors you'd imaagine?) and again contrary to your assertions simlar high levels amongst populatons in other countries also support manadatory vaccination. Again regardless of country the percentages of adult vaccinated bear striking similarity to the percentages for approval of vaccination by force.
Like you I don't think there's much difference between Brits and Europeans and given that the UK level of vaccination (at least one jab and sso likely to go on to be double jabbed) is now 88%, would you say that in view of the above information, I in fact have much more reason to be concerned than you initially believed?
Without making personal accusations that Tony has, I would also say that asked the direct question are you for or against it on social media may inhibit the answers some people give. An inhibition that annonymous polling seems to quite efficiently dissolve.
OK, so we're back to fact (Austria can act on its own if it so wishes) against opinion (they're probably being encouraged by the Germans who, with their fascist background, "leopards never change their spots" - are thinking of doing the same thing.) And we're also back to democracy - Germans are 70% in support of mandatory vaccinations. Surely as someone who supports democracy you would have no problem with the Germans changing their legislation to fit the wishes of their populace. In the same way that you insisted that the wishes of just under 52% of the UK should be carried out in 2016? Being someone who believes in national sovereignty, I reckon the Germans should be allowed to get on with following the wishes of their population. If a similar poll were to be held in the UK, I would definitely vote against mandatory vaccinations. I have to warn you though, that I have an abysmal record of voting for the losing cause in elections/referenda of all types, so if such a referendum were to be held, you, Tony and I might well have to "suck it up" like I've had to with the EU referendum. Or we may not. Who knows. Anyway, whether you intended it or not, this thread has degenerated into unpleasantness, for which I realise I am partially responsible, obviously. Which is a shame, when the forum is supposed to be more about what we all have in common (Birmingham City FC) rather that what we all disagree about (almost everything else!)
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Post by tonyhancock on Nov 24, 2021 19:55:29 GMT
I've mentioned this to you, before. I think it's worse than that. It must be legal as far as EU law is concerned. And these blighters, who it seems we are a member en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Court_of_Human_Rights#Member_states Not only legal, but I'd GUESS full approval, maybe even planned with the EU - agreed that Austria would go first. I'm wary of polls*, and how their questions are framed, who they ask, and what questions they omit. But on the face of it, up to 100% of the people being in favour of mandatory jabs, equalling the number of people who've had them, is worse than I'd feared. Me too, it genuinely really really shocked me and it's hard to shock me where base levels of human nature go, it's why I started this thread, didn't expect much in the way of arguing against my points but was still gladdened by most responses (eventually ) that's been somewhat deflated by what I've read today.* = To everyone's shock, I'm sure It's gone past the jab now. This is much bigger, the jab's only a conduit. Exactly, this is what I was saying when comparing the remainers wanting to overturn the referendum result, the mentality of wanting their way on something regardless of the consequences for everybody including themselves of the fundamental change in the state/citizens dynamic, rule of law and democracy, it's nuts. In their craze for power over other people they'll totally and completely remove the last semblence of individual rights from everybody, anything left after that is window dressing and illusitory.Even if I came around to believing the jab is a godsend, I wouldn't take it. I need to know whether or not I will be forced. If I am, I'll know what sort of country I live in, and exactly how free I really am. I fear I already know, not so deep down.
Same, as said before I've come pretty close to deciding to get it more than once, this kind of authoritarian overreach is making it HARDER for me to believe the narrative, they're making my position more entrenched.
Sigh. I've been flapping about this for some time now. First it was just the cost, damage to lives & businesses, and the massive inflation to come. I don't think I need to repeat my journey for the zillionth time. I genuinely think something terrible is coming. It keeps me awake. Many terrible things, actually. The anxiety is crushing. I can't enjoy myself, much, due to the worry. I've said it before, you may remember the Sarah Connor thing. I'm much more worried, now.
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Post by bubba on Nov 24, 2021 20:06:31 GMT
OK I have now spent a couple of hours on and off trying to find the EU position on Austra and have found absolutely nothing, zero, zilch. On the one hand that could be seen as validating your point about exerting their own sovereignty within the EU. However I have to say the deepeer I dug I came to believe there was a darker more nefarious reasoning that had nothing to do with sovereignty.
I am now of the opinion the complete lack of any kind of backlash from the EU or even other member countries is in and of itself a form of tacit approval.
This conclusion was further supported upon findng out that Germany is also strongly considering the same totalitarian approach of manadatory vaccinations (I guess leopards never change their spots) and that contrary to your assertions throughout this thread that I was overplaying the threat and seeking argument, that in fact according to polling done in Germany 70% of their population support manadatory vaccinations which by an amazing coincidence is almost exactly the same as their adult vaccinated percentage, what do you think of that?
Austria waas more around the 50% figure for approval amongst it's population, about 10% under it's adult vaccinated levels (conscientious objectors you'd imaagine?) and again contrary to your assertions simlar high levels amongst populatons in other countries also support manadatory vaccination. Again regardless of country the percentages of adult vaccinated bear striking similarity to the percentages for approval of vaccination by force.
Like you I don't think there's much difference between Brits and Europeans and given that the UK level of vaccination (at least one jab and sso likely to go on to be double jabbed) is now 88%, would you say that in view of the above information, I in fact have much more reason to be concerned than you initially believed?
Without making personal accusations that Tony has, I would also say that asked the direct question are you for or against it on social media may inhibit the answers some people give. An inhibition that annonymous polling seems to quite efficiently dissolve.
OK, so we're back to fact (Austria can act on its own if it so wishes) against opinion (they're probably being encouraged by the Germans who, with their fascist background, "leopards never change their spots" - are thinking of doing the same thing.) And we're also back to democracy - Germans are 70% in support of mandatory vaccinations. Surely as someone who supports democracy you would have no problem with the Germans changing their legislation to fit the wishes of their populace. In the same way that you insisted that the wishes of just under 52% of the UK should be carried out in 2016? Being someone who believes in national sovereignty, I reckon the Germans should be allowed to get on with following the wishes of their population. If a similar poll were to be held in the UK, I would definitely vote against mandatory vaccinations. I have to warn you though, that I have an abysmal record of voting for the losing cause in elections/referenda of all types, so if such a referendum were to be held, you, Tony and I might well have to "suck it up" like I've had to with the EU referendum. Or we may not. Who knows. Anyway, whether you intended it or not, this thread has degenerated into unpleasantness, for which I realise I am partially responsible, obviously. Which is a shame, when the forum is supposed to be more about what we all have in common (Birmingham City FC) rather that what we all disagree about (almost everything else!)
Leopards and spots was tongue in cheek for your benefit.
I have to say you have really disappointed me with your response. Point scoring aside you pretty much state that if it's the will of the people... and comparing a national political choice with what I thought you agreed was the sanctity of people's sovereignty over their own body, where does it end if we say if enough people say so?
It is my right to decide what does or does't go in my body, regardless of what government, lawyers or most people say, I am not and never will be a slave.
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Post by tonyhancock on Nov 24, 2021 20:10:03 GMT
OK I have now spent a couple of hours on and off trying to find the EU position on Austra and have found absolutely nothing, zero, zilch. On the one hand that could be seen as validating your point about exerting their own sovereignty within the EU. However I have to say the deepeer I dug I came to believe there was a darker more nefarious reasoning that had nothing to do with sovereignty.
I am now of the opinion the complete lack of any kind of backlash from the EU or even other member countries is in and of itself a form of tacit approval.
This conclusion was further supported upon findng out that Germany is also strongly considering the same totalitarian approach of manadatory vaccinations (I guess leopards never change their spots) and that contrary to your assertions throughout this thread that I was overplaying the threat and seeking argument, that in fact according to polling done in Germany 70% of their population support manadatory vaccinations which by an amazing coincidence is almost exactly the same as their adult vaccinated percentage, what do you think of that?
Austria waas more around the 50% figure for approval amongst it's population, about 10% under it's adult vaccinated levels (conscientious objectors you'd imaagine?) and again contrary to your assertions simlar high levels amongst populatons in other countries also support manadatory vaccination. Again regardless of country the percentages of adult vaccinated bear striking similarity to the percentages for approval of vaccination by force.
Like you I don't think there's much difference between Brits and Europeans and given that the UK level of vaccination (at least one jab and sso likely to go on to be double jabbed) is now 88%, would you say that in view of the above information, I in fact have much more reason to be concerned than you initially believed?
Without making personal accusations that Tony has, I would also say that asked the direct question are you for or against it on social media may inhibit the answers some people give. An inhibition that annonymous polling seems to quite efficiently dissolve.
OK, so we're back to fact (Austria can act on its own if it so wishes) against opinion (they're probably being encouraged by the Germans who, with their fascist background, "leopards never change their spots" - are thinking of doing the same thing.) And we're also back to democracy - Germans are 70% in support of mandatory vaccinations. Surely as someone who supports democracy you would have no problem with the Germans changing their legislation to fit the wishes of their populace. In the same way that you insisted that the wishes of just under 52% of the UK should be carried out in 2016? Being someone who believes in national sovereignty, I reckon the Germans should be allowed to get on with following the wishes of their population. If a similar poll were to be held in the UK, I would definitely vote against mandatory vaccinations. I have to warn you though, that I have an abysmal record of voting for the losing cause in elections/referenda of all types, so if such a referendum were to be held, you, Tony and I might well have to "suck it up" like I've had to with the EU referendum. Or we may not. Who knows. Anyway, whether you intended it or not, this thread has degenerated into unpleasantness, for which I realise I am partially responsible, obviously. Which is a shame, when the forum is supposed to be more about what we all have in common (Birmingham City FC) rather that what we all disagree about (almost everything else!) The thing is, generally speaking, we all benefit or suffer the same, regardless of the result of any vote. I'd think we'd all prefer, we all benefit. Right now I'm in no doubt we're being played. I think it's piss takingly obvious. But you are correct, in as much as, you and many others believe the same thing regarding the referendum. Worse still, for me at least, I think the democracy thing is a sham. I don't think voting a way out of what is to come, is possible.
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Post by bubba on Nov 24, 2021 20:23:03 GMT
I just think if you take Will at his word, and I do, that he supports the notion it should be our choice, but then has the kind of Pontius Pilate attitude of oh well my hands are clean, then it's entirely clear to me that we really are on our own, because most of the 88% are gonna be weaving us crowns of thorns.
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Post by Will on Nov 24, 2021 21:19:48 GMT
I just think if you take Will at his word, and I do, that he supports the notion it should be our choice, but then has the kind of Pontius Pilate attitude of oh well my hands are clean, then it's entirely clear to me that we really are on our own, because most of the 88% are gonna be weaving us crowns of thorns. Man alive, I'm sick to the back teeth of stating my pov now and having it thrown back in my face. You lot carry on with your pick'n'mix version of democracy and your conspiracy theories. Have the fcuking jab if you want it, don't have it if you don't. I support your wishes, one way or the fcuking other. And I genuinely hope that, whatever your choice, if you do catch the lurgy the NHS pulls you round. Oh, and Bubba, spare yourself the trouble of expounding national stereotypes "for my benefit" - I spent 32 years in my professional life trying to convince kids that such stereotypes should be ignored, but as I was working in the UK as as a Modern Languages teacher very few of the kids, nor their parents, nor the country as a whole, thought that the work I was doing was worthwhile. See you on the Blues forum some time. But before I go ... www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/anti-vaxxer-dies-coronavirus-after-25528093.amp
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Post by tonyhancock on Nov 24, 2021 21:41:55 GMT
I just think if you take Will at his word, and I do, that he supports the notion it should be our choice, but then has the kind of Pontius Pilate attitude of oh well my hands are clean, then it's entirely clear to me that we really are on our own, because most of the 88% are gonna be weaving us crowns of thorns. At a guess, May last year. I was talking to my cousin about my feeling that the government is determined to get a needle in our arms. I did my usual pitch. I'd class her as one of, what I identify as, a Tory boy. She couldn't wait to get a shot, and get back to normal. She could see where I was coming from, but had faith in authority - in other words, there must be a good reason, and basically my fears are unfounded. On the subject of forced jabs - "Oh, I'd support you on that". 'Then don't get the jab, when it comes, wait until it's clear it won't be mandatory' No. neither would she write to her MP, or join a protest. She didn't mean support, she meant agree with me. She'd loosely back me up in a conversation, and that's it. I do believe most will not care if it's mandatory or not. I think most will do absolutely nothing to help anyone faced with the sack and so on. I think they will kid themselves they didn't HAVE to take the jab, they just wanted to (and they did want to, but didn't HAVE to). I think they will kid themselves that people who take the jab, rather than lose their job, home, wife & kids, were not forced to take the jab. (Which they should anyway, they will say to themselves) They will not worry that the app they are forced to carry will not be limited to a jab. It will become a social credit score. Their every electronic utterance will be logged to that app. Their meat consumption restricted. Their travel restricted. Their fcuking 'carbon footprint' rationed. That it won't just be the good people who got jabbed, who are allowed to go to public venues, it'll those who follow all sorts of instructions. Their every movement will be monitored, every purchase. Their accounts could be frozen in an instant (there would be no cash). Cars switched off, remotely. Log in to vote. You will agree that Anne Boleyn was black. It has always been this way. And that's if they're lucky. It could be decided, that machines can do the work. People are surplus to requirements, other than organ doners. People are a waste of resources. "Tony's lost the plot" (reader's voice) Tony is trying to warn, this is a dictator's wet dream
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2021 22:14:46 GMT
And yet the vaccine is not mandatory and not is the app
Occams Razor comes to mind with this thread
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Post by tonyhancock on Nov 24, 2021 22:17:21 GMT
I just think if you take Will at his word, and I do, that he supports the notion it should be our choice, but then has the kind of Pontius Pilate attitude of oh well my hands are clean, then it's entirely clear to me that we really are on our own, because most of the 88% are gonna be weaving us crowns of thorns. We are not on our own. It is possible, for now, to find footage of hundreds of thousands of people protesting throughout Europe. What we lack is organisation. The MSM mostly ignore the protests, or lie about the magnitude. MPs don't worry about them. Protesting outside an MP's house might get their attention. We need a leader of great talent. The problem as I see it. The globalists have the money. In fact, they can create money at will. It is practically impossible to not spend money with multinational companies. Even with supposedly rival multinational companies, say Coke & Pepsi, they have the same clique of shareholders, notably Blackrock & Vanguard. Politicians, the scum they are, either belong to the same group, or are paid off by them. (or are beholden to them, or blackmailed / threatened by them) Institutions like education & civil service are well and truly infiltrated. Hollywood and the press, are owned by the same group of people. As are Google & Facebook. Our police, it seems to me, have been infiltrated, and our armed forces aren't far off. Hopefully, and with the same baby steps, patriots will reverse the process, with their own secret cliques, and do some infiltrating of their own. Much as it goes against the grain. Just a view. Anyone with any interest, should look into things themselves.
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Post by tonyhancock on Nov 24, 2021 22:23:33 GMT
And yet the vaccine is not mandatory and not is the app Occams Razor comes to mind with this thread And may it (mostly) stay that way In your view, if someone is working in a care home (just that for now), and has to choose unemployment or the jab. Poverty or the jab. Do you consider this to be non-mandatory ? If someone say, enjoys going to a night club, or foreign holidays, but is not allowed without a jab, Despite being perfectly healthy, despite the jab not stopping infection or spread, do you not see this as dictatorship ?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2021 7:24:33 GMT
And yet the vaccine is not mandatory and not is the app Occams Razor comes to mind with this thread And may it (mostly) stay that way In your view, if someone is working in a care home (just that for now), and has to choose unemployment or the jab. Poverty or the jab. Do you consider this to be non-mandatory ? If someone say, enjoys going to a night club, or foreign holidays, but is not allowed without a jab, Despite being perfectly healthy, despite the jab not stopping infection or spread, do you not see this as dictatorship ? I have a 93 year old grandparent in a home. It’s quite a quandary really. On one hand I want them to be in the best possible care, however I don’t agree with mandatory vaccinations, especially where by those same carers looked after them at peak covid with little to no protection. I can see tho that nursing homes may demand staff to be vaccinated so they can “offer” better care than their competition.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2021 9:47:43 GMT
I just think if you take Will at his word, and I do, that he supports the notion it should be our choice, but then has the kind of Pontius Pilate attitude of oh well my hands are clean, then it's entirely clear to me that we really are on our own, because most of the 88% are gonna be weaving us crowns of thorns. We are not on our own. It is possible, for now, to find footage of hundreds of thousands of people protesting throughout Europe. What we lack is organisation. The MSM mostly ignore the protests, or lie about the magnitude. MPs don't worry about them. Protesting outside an MP's house might get their attention. We need a leader of great talent. The problem as I see it. The globalists have the money. In fact, they can create money at will. It is practically impossible to not spend money with multinational companies. Even with supposedly rival multinational companies, say Coke & Pepsi, they have the same clique of shareholders, notably Blackrock & Vanguard. Politicians, the scum they are, either belong to the same group, or are paid off by them. (or are beholden to them, or blackmailed / threatened by them) Institutions like education & civil service are well and truly infiltrated. Hollywood and the press, are owned by the same group of people. As are Google & Facebook. Our police, it seems to me, have been infiltrated, and our armed forces aren't far off. Hopefully, and with the same baby steps, patriots will reverse the process, with their own secret cliques, and do some infiltrating of their own. Much as it goes against the grain. Just a view. Anyone with any interest, should look into things themselves. One thing of note today - especially relevant for people holding this sort of view point- is the Tories Policing bill. Absolutely scandalous they are trying to criminalise the right to protest.
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Post by choc on Nov 25, 2021 12:03:16 GMT
So still not offering any alternative to the vaccine then which is working. Nothing changes ' Fund research. Invite doctors & scientists to speak their minds openly. Recommend vigilance and cleanliness. Encourage good diet & keeping healthy, especially fitness levels, control the fcuking borders / close them, off the top of head'. I've not been asked, before. It isn't working as a vaccine. A vaccine will make you immune, if it works. They can't lie about that. They claim taking the vaccine is safer than not. It may or may not be, but I wouldn't take their word for it. In any event, bubba's post, I think, was not to convince anyone of anything, but to get a gist of people's thoughts regarding compulsory vaccination, and the wider implications. I think the results are as follows: Regarding the implications, precedent, principle & future, only bubba & I have given it any thought. Regarding compulsory vaccination bubba & I - horrified Now this is what I think. I'm not speaking for anyone else, this is just my opinion stevo - would vote against it being compulsory, but wouldn't be over bothered if it was EPJ - much the same will - didn't want compulsory jabs questioned - all for them bluenose68 - Not comfortable with mandatory vaccinations, but thinks incentivising them is a good idea. I think he also thinks coerced into taking them, is fine. Much in line with government so far. I think he'd be fine with making life unbearable for people, until they got the shot 'voluntarily' yourself - think the unvaxed are lower than the worst drug addict. Government doing a splendid job. Between 68 and will. Much closer to will bruminoz - against Regarding your first point. They are already doing or done the highlighted. You quote me of saying that the unvaxed are lower than the worst drug addict. That is a lie. Are you saying the reverse? You quote me saying the Government doing a splendid job. Another lie. What I have said is they have done no better or worse than other countries and in some areas, such as the vaccine roll out, they are at the top of the pile. I have never said that anyone should be forced to have any vaccine but in some professions it is a requirement of your employment. I had to have Hepatis vaccines where I was working but I had the choice. Job or they would replace me with someone else. I chose the job and the protection it offered me. IMO it is the duty of all UK citizens to get vaccinated but it's your choice. You still offer no alternative to the vaccine because there isn't one.
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Post by tonyhancock on Nov 25, 2021 14:19:13 GMT
And may it (mostly) stay that way In your view, if someone is working in a care home (just that for now), and has to choose unemployment or the jab. Poverty or the jab. Do you consider this to be non-mandatory ? If someone say, enjoys going to a night club, or foreign holidays, but is not allowed without a jab, Despite being perfectly healthy, despite the jab not stopping infection or spread, do you not see this as dictatorship ? I have a 93 year old grandparent in a home. It’s quite a quandary really. On one hand I want them to be in the best possible care, however I don’t agree with mandatory vaccinations, especially where by those same carers looked after them at peak covid with little to no protection. I can see tho that nursing homes may demand staff to be vaccinated so they can “offer” better care than their competition. I can completely empathise with that. I don't know for sure whether the jab is better than no jab or the reverse. So as much as I'd prefer those close to me, to not jab, I can't try to talk them out of it. If they didn't, down to pressure from me, and something bad happened, I couldn't live with it. So, as you can imagine, I've told them what I think, and left it up to them. They got jabbed, if you're wondering.
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Post by tonyhancock on Nov 25, 2021 14:23:37 GMT
We are not on our own. It is possible, for now, to find footage of hundreds of thousands of people protesting throughout Europe. What we lack is organisation. The MSM mostly ignore the protests, or lie about the magnitude. MPs don't worry about them. Protesting outside an MP's house might get their attention. We need a leader of great talent. The problem as I see it. The globalists have the money. In fact, they can create money at will. It is practically impossible to not spend money with multinational companies. Even with supposedly rival multinational companies, say Coke & Pepsi, they have the same clique of shareholders, notably Blackrock & Vanguard. Politicians, the scum they are, either belong to the same group, or are paid off by them. (or are beholden to them, or blackmailed / threatened by them) Institutions like education & civil service are well and truly infiltrated. Hollywood and the press, are owned by the same group of people. As are Google & Facebook. Our police, it seems to me, have been infiltrated, and our armed forces aren't far off. Hopefully, and with the same baby steps, patriots will reverse the process, with their own secret cliques, and do some infiltrating of their own. Much as it goes against the grain. Just a view. Anyone with any interest, should look into things themselves. One thing of note today - especially relevant for people holding this sort of view point- is the Tories Policing bill. Absolutely scandalous they are trying to criminalise the right to protest. They grant themselves whatever power they dream up. Just as bad, Labour aren't particularly bothered. They'll get their turn. I never expected to take inspiration from Gandhi, but I think his mass non cooperation idea, is brilliant.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2021 14:49:12 GMT
TBH with an 80 seat majority it genuinely doesnt matter what labour do...the bill gets pushed through regardless. Obviously thats a product of labour doing terribly at the last election- however we should be very concerned by the actions taken by this govenment and the liberties they are taking with their new powers
However with the current voting system you can see why people get apathetic to it- there should be no thing as a safe seat for any politican.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2021 14:51:34 GMT
I have a 93 year old grandparent in a home. It’s quite a quandary really. On one hand I want them to be in the best possible care, however I don’t agree with mandatory vaccinations, especially where by those same carers looked after them at peak covid with little to no protection. I can see tho that nursing homes may demand staff to be vaccinated so they can “offer” better care than their competition. I can completely empathise with that. I don't know for sure whether the jab is better than no jab or the reverse. So as much as I'd prefer those close to me, to not jab, I can't try to talk them out of it. If they didn't, down to pressure from me, and something bad happened, I couldn't live with it. So, as you can imagine, I've told them what I think, and left it up to them. They got jabbed, if you're wondering. FWIW my grandparent absolutely should have been vaccinated. At 93 you need all the help you can get. However respect the rights of the workers to have the opportunity to decide whether that is right for them to be vaccinated or not. If employers decide that carries too much risk to employ a unvaxed employee then that unemployment risk transfers to the worker. Not ideal but at least in a free market they can decide whether that is an industry they want to work in
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Post by tonyhancock on Nov 25, 2021 14:54:34 GMT
' Fund research. Invite doctors & scientists to speak their minds openly. Recommend vigilance and cleanliness. Encourage good diet & keeping healthy, especially fitness levels, control the fcuking borders / close them, off the top of head'. I've not been asked, before. It isn't working as a vaccine. A vaccine will make you immune, if it works. They can't lie about that. They claim taking the vaccine is safer than not. It may or may not be, but I wouldn't take their word for it. In any event, bubba's post, I think, was not to convince anyone of anything, but to get a gist of people's thoughts regarding compulsory vaccination, and the wider implications. I think the results are as follows: Regarding the implications, precedent, principle & future, only bubba & I have given it any thought. Regarding compulsory vaccination bubba & I - horrified Now this is what I think. I'm not speaking for anyone else, this is just my opinion stevo - would vote against it being compulsory, but wouldn't be over bothered if it was EPJ - much the same will - didn't want compulsory jabs questioned - all for them bluenose68 - Not comfortable with mandatory vaccinations, but thinks incentivising them is a good idea. I think he also thinks coerced into taking them, is fine. Much in line with government so far. I think he'd be fine with making life unbearable for people, until they got the shot 'voluntarily' yourself - think the unvaxed are lower than the worst drug addict. Government doing a splendid job. Between 68 and will. Much closer to will bruminoz - against Regarding your first point. They are already doing or done the highlighted. You quote me of saying that the unvaxed are lower than the worst drug addict. That is a lie. Are you saying the reverse? You quote me saying the Government doing a splendid job. Another lie. What I have said is they have done no better or worse than other countries and in some areas, such as the vaccine roll out, they are at the top of the pile. I have never said that anyone should be forced to have any vaccine but in some professions it is a requirement of your employment. I had to have Hepatis vaccines where I was working but I had the choice. Job or they would replace me with someone else. I chose the job and the protection it offered me. IMO it is the duty of all UK citizens to get vaccinated but it's your choice. You still offer no alternative to the vaccine because there isn't one. Well I think they are doing the exact opposite of encouraging ALL doctors & scientists to speak their minds openly. They are threatening to sack doctors who keep their mouths shut, but won't get the jab. Calling the government out, would not be a good career move. I wasn't quoting you. Now this is what I think. I'm not speaking for anyone else, this is just my opinion is what I said. I thought it was clear. So, regarding the government, please let us know your answers: 1. If you believed a new virus was super deadly, and could kill half a million people in the UK. Would you instantly be balls deep in your promiscuous, married lover ? Would you be going to (large) wedding & funerals ? Because that's what our dear leaders were doing. 2. If an actual plague arrived on our shores from abroad. A new black death. Would you invite thousands of people from the Middle East & Africa, put 'em up in a hotel, give 'em some spending money, and tell them to be back at meal times ? 3. If you were in charge, would you use drones to see if anyone was walking their dog, 4 miles from anyone else, in the Peak District; and completely ignore someone standing on the Cenotaph burning the flag, during a riot (which also seems to be no problem) ? 4. If you were compiling records of cases, would you use a test which wasn't designed for the disease, and tell everyone there can be false positives (which you'd count), and admit that some people are immune from even the slightest inconvenience from the virus, to the point they didn't notice ? (And still count them). 5. If you were compiling details of death, from this virus, would you be happy with your data, if the people in (4. above) were included, having been electrocuted ? Could you with a clear conscious, state totals ? No I don't have an alternative to the vaccine. Presently the alternative is not taking the vaccine. In the future, there may be a vaccine which does stop you getting ill, and doesn't actually kill some people. There may even be a cure. I don't think most people are receiving balanced information. They certainly aren't being told they may be getting a placebo, and are therefore part of an ongoing trial. Anyhow. You still haven't answered my question. It has been cleared for emergency use only. The only people with immunity, are the drug companies, from prosecution or liability. It was discussed in the House of Commons that some people are getting a placebo. What does that tell you? In your view, if someone is working in a care home (just that for now), and has to choose unemployment or the jab. Poverty or the jab. Do you consider this to be non-mandatory ? If someone say, enjoys going to a night club, or foreign holidays, but is not allowed without a jab, Despite being perfectly healthy, despite the jab not stopping infection or spread, do you not see this as dictatorship ?
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Post by tonyhancock on Nov 25, 2021 15:02:45 GMT
TBH with an 80 seat majority it genuinely doesnt matter what labour do...the bill gets pushed through regardless. Obviously thats a product of labour doing terribly at the last election- however we should be very concerned by the actions taken by this govenment and the liberties they are taking with their new powers However with the current voting system you can see why people get apathetic to it- there should be no thing as a safe seat for any politican. With an 80 seat majority, they could get a law passed through, which would allow them to play with little boy's cocks. Labour can't do anything, but take opposing views, if they were so inclined. They are not so inclined. (I don't mean a law about little boy's cocks, I mean absolutely everything else of importance). They are pretty much on the same page, criticising only to say they'd have done the same things, sooner, later, shorter, longer, more intense, less intense and so on. Which leads into your second point. I'm way past apathetic. I don't think that whoever is in number 10, would really be calling the shots.
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Post by tonyhancock on Nov 25, 2021 15:13:19 GMT
I can completely empathise with that. I don't know for sure whether the jab is better than no jab or the reverse. So as much as I'd prefer those close to me, to not jab, I can't try to talk them out of it. If they didn't, down to pressure from me, and something bad happened, I couldn't live with it. So, as you can imagine, I've told them what I think, and left it up to them. They got jabbed, if you're wondering. FWIW my grandparent absolutely should have been vaccinated. At 93 you need all the help you can get. However respect the rights of the workers to have the opportunity to decide whether that is right for them to be vaccinated or not. If employers decide that carries too much risk to employ a unvaxed employee then that unemployment risk transfers to the worker. Not ideal but at least in a free market they can decide whether that is an industry they want to work in I imagine if I was 93, I'd take my chances with the shot. If they could get away with claiming the shot will stop you getting ill, or spreading the virus, I'm pretty sure they'd make that claim. They don't. They say it lessens the chances, and the effects. It might do. I don't think they know. To go from clap our carers, who are on the front line (at a time when we are being told up to 500,000 people could die), to get this jab which won't stop you spreading the virus, or you're sacked, you nuct, is monstrous. They could test everyone before starting their shift. Then it wouldn't matter if they'd had the jab, or not. Far better that, than assume the jab will stop the spread, even though knowing it won't. I don't think it's about public health. See my five basic questions. I think it's about getting a needle in people's arms, and will lead to controlling those people. And I don't mean by a microbot.
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Post by choc on Nov 25, 2021 15:59:01 GMT
Regarding your first point. They are already doing or done the highlighted. You quote me of saying that the unvaxed are lower than the worst drug addict. That is a lie. Are you saying the reverse? You quote me saying the Government doing a splendid job. Another lie. What I have said is they have done no better or worse than other countries and in some areas, such as the vaccine roll out, they are at the top of the pile. I have never said that anyone should be forced to have any vaccine but in some professions it is a requirement of your employment. I had to have Hepatis vaccines where I was working but I had the choice. Job or they would replace me with someone else. I chose the job and the protection it offered me. IMO it is the duty of all UK citizens to get vaccinated but it's your choice. You still offer no alternative to the vaccine because there isn't one. Well I think they are doing the exact opposite of encouraging ALL doctors & scientists to speak their minds openly. They are threatening to sack doctors who keep their mouths shut, but won't get the jab. Calling the government out, would not be a good career move. I wasn't quoting you. Now this is what I think. I'm not speaking for anyone else, this is just my opinion is what I said. I thought it was clear. So, regarding the government, please let us know your answers: 1. If you believed a new virus was super deadly, and could kill half a million people in the UK. Would you instantly be balls deep in your promiscuous, married lover ? Would you be going to (large) wedding & funerals ? Because that's what our dear leaders were doing. 2. If an actual plague arrived on our shores from abroad. A new black death. Would you invite thousands of people from the Middle East & Africa, put 'em up in a hotel, give 'em some spending money, and tell them to be back at meal times ? 3. If you were in charge, would you use drones to see if anyone was walking their dog, 4 miles from anyone else, in the Peak District; and completely ignore someone standing on the Cenotaph burning the flag, during a riot (which also seems to be no problem) ? 4. If you were compiling records of cases, would you use a test which wasn't designed for the disease, and tell everyone there can be false positives (which you'd count), and admit that some people are immune from even the slightest inconvenience from the virus, to the point they didn't notice ? (And still count them). 5. If you were compiling details of death, from this virus, would you be happy with your data, if the people in (4. above) were included, having been electrocuted ? Could you with a clear conscious, state totals ? No I don't have an alternative to the vaccine. Presently the alternative is not taking the vaccine. In the future, there may be a vaccine which does stop you getting ill, and doesn't actually kill some people. There may even be a cure. I don't think most people are receiving balanced information. They certainly aren't being told they may be getting a placebo, and are therefore part of an ongoing trial. Anyhow. You still haven't answered my question. It has been cleared for emergency use only. The only people with immunity, are the drug companies, from prosecution or liability. It was discussed in the House of Commons that some people are getting a placebo. What does that tell you? In your view, if someone is working in a care home (just that for now), and has to choose unemployment or the jab. Poverty or the jab. Do you consider this to be non-mandatory ? If someone say, enjoys going to a night club, or foreign holidays, but is not allowed without a jab, Despite being perfectly healthy, despite the jab not stopping infection or spread, do you not see this as dictatorship ? There has been doctors on TV stating they wont have the jab and as far as I am aware no one has been sacked As you quoted me, as in 'yourself', I thought you did. If you didn't then fair enough. 1. No 2. No 3. No 4. Not aware of this story 5. I stated before that doctors were signing death certificates stating Covid when they didn't inspect the body. This was going on in old peoples homes. But early on they were doing the reverse when they thought people were dying of a strange new flu The evidence is clear that the vaccine has been working across the world. They certainly aren't being told they may be getting a placebo Please point me to this story as I seem to have missed it👍 It has been cleared for emergency use only. That's understandable as it was and still is an emergency The only people with immunity, are the drug companies, from prosecution or liability. Who would you prosecute if you could and needed to? It was discussed in the House of Commons that some people are getting a placebo. What does that tell you? As above In your view, if someone is working in a care home (just that for now), and has to choose unemployment or the jab. Poverty or the jab. Do you consider this to be non-mandatory ? If I didn't want it then I would leave and get another job like I have done all my working life when not happy If someone say, enjoys going to a night club, or foreign holidays, but is not allowed without a jab, Despite being perfectly healthy, despite the jab not stopping infection or spread, do you not see this as dictatorship ?
No I see it as the rules/laws and that is the right of any country, not just ours, to make its own laws, or directives if you are an EU country😉, and I certainly felt a lot more confident getting on a plane having had the vaccine
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2021 15:59:47 GMT
Regarding your first point. They are already doing or done the highlighted. You quote me of saying that the unvaxed are lower than the worst drug addict. That is a lie. Are you saying the reverse? You quote me saying the Government doing a splendid job. Another lie. What I have said is they have done no better or worse than other countries and in some areas, such as the vaccine roll out, they are at the top of the pile. I have never said that anyone should be forced to have any vaccine but in some professions it is a requirement of your employment. I had to have Hepatis vaccines where I was working but I had the choice. Job or they would replace me with someone else. I chose the job and the protection it offered me. IMO it is the duty of all UK citizens to get vaccinated but it's your choice. You still offer no alternative to the vaccine because there isn't one. Well I think they are doing the exact opposite of encouraging ALL doctors & scientists to speak their minds openly. They are threatening to sack doctors who keep their mouths shut, but won't get the jab. Calling the government out, would not be a good career move. I wasn't quoting you. Now this is what I think. I'm not speaking for anyone else, this is just my opinion is what I said. I thought it was clear. So, regarding the government, please let us know your answers: 1. If you believed a new virus was super deadly, and could kill half a million people in the UK. Would you instantly be balls deep in your promiscuous, married lover ? Would you be going to (large) wedding & funerals ? Because that's what our dear leaders were doing. If i was in charge no i wouldnt. I would be setting the example. There is a reason our glorious leader is nicknamed the 'shopping trolley'2. If an actual plague arrived on our shores from abroad. A new black death. Would you invite thousands of people from the Middle East & Africa, put 'em up in a hotel, give 'em some spending money, and tell them to be back at meal times ? But it wasnt a plague or a black death. It was a novel virus that they new would expose vulnerable people. The Asylum question is completely irrelevant as this will happen irrespective of whatever happens and they need to be addressed (accomodation, given basic support etc)3. If you were in charge, would you use drones to see if anyone was walking their dog, 4 miles from anyone else, in the Peak District; and completely ignore someone standing on the Cenotaph burning the flag, during a riot (which also seems to be no problem) ? So are we saying the London Met flew a drone to yorkshire? Or are we talking about 2 totally different police forces, at 2 completely different times4. If you were compiling records of cases, would you use a test which wasn't designed for the disease, and tell everyone there can be false positives (which you'd count), and admit that some people are immune from even the slightest inconvenience from the virus, to the point they didn't notice ? (And still count them). Id use the best test available, acknowledge the limitations and caveats- as long as the data set is consistent that would help my decision making5. If you were compiling details of death, from this virus, would you be happy with your data, if the people in (4. above) were included, having been electrocuted ? Could you with a clear conscious, state totals ? see answer 4No I don't have an alternative to the vaccine. so you would have let more people die then and accepted the impact on healthcare. Presently the alternative is not taking the vaccine. In the future, there may be a vaccine which does stop you getting ill, and doesn't actually kill some people. There may even be a cure. I don't think most people are receiving balanced information. They certainly aren't being told they may be getting a placebo, and are therefore part of an ongoing trial. Anyhow. You still haven't answered my question. It has been cleared for emergency use only. The only people with immunity, are the drug companies, from prosecution or liability. It was discussed in the House of Commons that some people are getting a placebo. What does that tell you? that its following a usual scientific testing regime. How do you compare results if you dont have a control. Thats basicsIn your view, if someone is working in a care home (just that for now), and has to choose unemployment or the jab. Poverty or the jab. Do you consider this to be non-mandatory ? If someone say, enjoys going to a night club, or foreign holidays, but is not allowed without a jab, Despite being perfectly healthy, despite the jab not stopping infection or spread, do you not see this as dictatorship ? Answers in bold
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Post by choc on Nov 25, 2021 16:13:52 GMT
I did it the other way round just to piss you off 68🤣🤣
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Post by tonyhancock on Nov 25, 2021 18:24:51 GMT
Well I think they are doing the exact opposite of encouraging ALL doctors & scientists to speak their minds openly. They are threatening to sack doctors who keep their mouths shut, but won't get the jab. Calling the government out, would not be a good career move. I wasn't quoting you. Now this is what I think. I'm not speaking for anyone else, this is just my opinion is what I said. I thought it was clear. So, regarding the government, please let us know your answers: 1. If you believed a new virus was super deadly, and could kill half a million people in the UK. Would you instantly be balls deep in your promiscuous, married lover ? Would you be going to (large) wedding & funerals ? Because that's what our dear leaders were doing. 2. If an actual plague arrived on our shores from abroad. A new black death. Would you invite thousands of people from the Middle East & Africa, put 'em up in a hotel, give 'em some spending money, and tell them to be back at meal times ? 3. If you were in charge, would you use drones to see if anyone was walking their dog, 4 miles from anyone else, in the Peak District; and completely ignore someone standing on the Cenotaph burning the flag, during a riot (which also seems to be no problem) ? 4. If you were compiling records of cases, would you use a test which wasn't designed for the disease, and tell everyone there can be false positives (which you'd count), and admit that some people are immune from even the slightest inconvenience from the virus, to the point they didn't notice ? (And still count them). 5. If you were compiling details of death, from this virus, would you be happy with your data, if the people in (4. above) were included, having been electrocuted ? Could you with a clear conscious, state totals ? No I don't have an alternative to the vaccine. Presently the alternative is not taking the vaccine. In the future, there may be a vaccine which does stop you getting ill, and doesn't actually kill some people. There may even be a cure. I don't think most people are receiving balanced information. They certainly aren't being told they may be getting a placebo, and are therefore part of an ongoing trial. Anyhow. You still haven't answered my question. It has been cleared for emergency use only. The only people with immunity, are the drug companies, from prosecution or liability. It was discussed in the House of Commons that some people are getting a placebo. What does that tell you? In your view, if someone is working in a care home (just that for now), and has to choose unemployment or the jab. Poverty or the jab. Do you consider this to be non-mandatory ? If someone say, enjoys going to a night club, or foreign holidays, but is not allowed without a jab, Despite being perfectly healthy, despite the jab not stopping infection or spread, do you not see this as dictatorship ? There has been doctors on TV stating they wont have the jab and as far as I am aware no one has been sacked As you quoted me, as in 'yourself', I thought you did. If you didn't then fair enough. 1. No 2. No 3. No 4. Not aware of this story 5. I stated before that doctors were signing death certificates stating Covid when they didn't inspect the body. This was going on in old peoples homes. But early on they were doing the reverse when they thought people were dying of a strange new flu The evidence is clear that the vaccine has been working across the world. They certainly aren't being told they may be getting a placebo Please point me to this story as I seem to have missed it👍 It has been cleared for emergency use only. That's understandable as it was and still is an emergency The only people with immunity, are the drug companies, from prosecution or liability. Who would you prosecute if you could and needed to? It was discussed in the House of Commons that some people are getting a placebo. What does that tell you? As above In your view, if someone is working in a care home (just that for now), and has to choose unemployment or the jab. Poverty or the jab. Do you consider this to be non-mandatory ? If I didn't want it then I would leave and get another job like I have done all my working life when not happy If someone say, enjoys going to a night club, or foreign holidays, but is not allowed without a jab, Despite being perfectly healthy, despite the jab not stopping infection or spread, do you not see this as dictatorship ?
No I see it as the rules/laws and that is the right of any country, not just ours, to make its own laws, or directives if you are an EU country😉, and I certainly felt a lot more confident getting on a plane having had the vaccine Sweet Jesus, this took some finding. In case you missed it, on top of page 3: "OK. I didn't mean anything I said as a personal attack on will, or anyone else. I was trying to sum up the findings, as i saw them Having thought about it, I don't think this was wise I apologise to will, and anyone else who took offence" I'd also like you to know I wouldn't spentd so much time trying to find (below), for just anyone. See what you think, have I got this right ? www.zahawi.com/parliament/ministerial-statement-covid-19-update-0Scroll down for transcript, it's after Dr Rupa's question, to help you find it. 'Her constituents can rest assured that those who are in clinical trials, including the Novavax trial, will have their data on the NHS covid app as being fully vaccinated, whether they are receiving the placebo or the vaccine, across all trials. That is happening. I will take it offline to look at her constituents’ case to make sure that that happens for them, because I am assured that the system already recognises that' The Guardian kindly provides subtitles. Better to watch this. Skip to 49:30
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Post by tonyhancock on Nov 25, 2021 18:54:14 GMT
Well I think they are doing the exact opposite of encouraging ALL doctors & scientists to speak their minds openly. They are threatening to sack doctors who keep their mouths shut, but won't get the jab. Calling the government out, would not be a good career move. I wasn't quoting you. Now this is what I think. I'm not speaking for anyone else, this is just my opinion is what I said. I thought it was clear. So, regarding the government, please let us know your answers: 1. If you believed a new virus was super deadly, and could kill half a million people in the UK. Would you instantly be balls deep in your promiscuous, married lover ? Would you be going to (large) wedding & funerals ? Because that's what our dear leaders were doing. A If i was in charge no i wouldnt. I would be setting the example. There is a reason our glorious leader is nicknamed the 'shopping trolley'2. If an actual plague arrived on our shores from abroad. A new black death. Would you invite thousands of people from the Middle East & Africa, put 'em up in a hotel, give 'em some spending money, and tell them to be back at meal times ? B But it wasnt a plague or a black death. It was a novel virus that they new would expose vulnerable people. The Asylum question is completely irrelevant as this will happen irrespective of whatever happens and they need to be addressed (accomodation, given basic support etc)3. If you were in charge, would you use drones to see if anyone was walking their dog, 4 miles from anyone else, in the Peak District; and completely ignore someone standing on the Cenotaph burning the flag, during a riot (which also seems to be no problem) ? C So are we saying the London Met flew a drone to yorkshire? Or are we talking about 2 totally different police forces, at 2 completely different times4. If you were compiling records of cases, would you use a test which wasn't designed for the disease, and tell everyone there can be false positives (which you'd count), and admit that some people are immune from even the slightest inconvenience from the virus, to the point they didn't notice ? (And still count them). D Id use the best test available, acknowledge the limitations and caveats- as long as the data set is consistent that would help my decision making5. If you were compiling details of death, from this virus, would you be happy with your data, if the people in (4. above) were included, having been electrocuted ? Could you with a clear conscious, state totals ? see answer 4No I don't have an alternative to the vaccine. E so you would have let more people die then and accepted the impact on healthcare. Presently the alternative is not taking the vaccine. In the future, there may be a vaccine which does stop you getting ill, and doesn't actually kill some people. There may even be a cure. I don't think most people are receiving balanced information. They certainly aren't being told they may be getting a placebo, and are therefore part of an ongoing trial. Anyhow. You still haven't answered my question. It has been cleared for emergency use only. The only people with immunity, are the drug companies, from prosecution or liability. It was discussed in the House of Commons that some people are getting a placebo. What does that tell you? F that its following a usual scientific testing regime. How do you compare results if you dont have a control. Thats basicsIn your view, if someone is working in a care home (just that for now), and has to choose unemployment or the jab. Poverty or the jab. Do you consider this to be non-mandatory ? If someone say, enjoys going to a night club, or foreign holidays, but is not allowed without a jab, Despite being perfectly healthy, despite the jab not stopping infection or spread, do you not see this as dictatorship ? Answers in bold A. Good Please be aware there were at least 3 Labour MP attending large funeral & weddings, and Kinnock's son attending a party. I'm not going to look that up. B. Then protect the vulnerable people. Don't close the economy down. As for the economic migrants, just because that would have happened anyway, doesn't mean it should. They shouldn't be let in, and especially not now. C. Different police authorities, same period of of time. Lockdown. D. I'll take that as you find it perfectly reasonable to get the death figures up, regardless of the fact the deceased was perfectly healthy, just prior to getting killed E. I am not convinced the jab is helping. It may be. We've had members here who have been terribly ill after a double jab. I also know the jab can do harm. What definitely does harm, is putting all other conditions on the back burner, unemployment, depression and alcohol abuse F. I understand a vaccine (one that works), takes on average 9 years to develop & test. We can't know the effects 2 or more years from now. Probably one of the reasons the drug companies can't be sued. OK. It's a thread about compulsory vaccinations, and implications of same. I get the impression, you're fairly happy with the government's handling of the virus, in general.
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Post by choc on Nov 25, 2021 20:42:00 GMT
D. I don't know why you think that I find it reasonable to get the death figures up. I found the media daily obsession with death figures irritable and pointless doing it every news bulletin. The figures I think you will agree were not accurate in the early days of reporting. I think they are more accurate now. E. Without the vaccine we would be in deep shit now regarding deaths and the NHS. Only today on local news the hospitals are saying that most people on intensive care units are the unvaccinated. No vaccine is a cure, a vaccine is a type of medicine that trains the body’s immune system so that it can fight a disease it has not come into contact with before. Vaccines are designed to prevent disease, rather than treat a disease once you have caught it. F. You are correct but no other vaccine has ever had so much money and world wide cooperation in it's development ever. Our government has made mistakes and Boris admitted it but show me a government that hasn't made mistakes. Us arm chair experts can sit back and say we would have done things differently but 99.9% of that would be hindsight and it wasn't us that had to make the decisions on any given day. I would have shut borders much faster but what do I know what effect that would have had on the country. I'm just the classic arm chair expert.😁
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Post by bubba on Nov 25, 2021 20:52:17 GMT
One thing of note today - especially relevant for people holding this sort of view point- is the Tories Policing bill. Absolutely scandalous they are trying to criminalise the right to protest.
Agreed
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