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Post by BillyNoMatesformerlyTheMadFrog on Sept 6, 2019 12:51:01 GMT
A European army? Multi national conscription? It could never happen, could it? Your joking right?
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Post by bubba on Sept 6, 2019 13:13:36 GMT
Jo Swinson leader of the liberal democratic party has said she would not respect the outcome of another referendum if leave won again. Time to change the name to liberal undemocrats . Really, hadn't seen that, unbelievable, squawking about a so called people's vote and people having the right to choose then in the next breath fcuk off we're doing what I want regardless of how you vote?
Well if the idea wasn't already invalid that should put the last nail in the coffin, mind you not that we didn't know it already, propaganda for years just to get what they want, had fcuk all to do with 'the people' fcukin chunts the lot of them.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2019 13:41:54 GMT
I've just watched a clip of a labour MP on Question time. She said if Labour get in,she will go to negotiate the best deal possible with the EU and then as a remainer,vote against it.fcuking unbelievable.
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Post by bubba on Sept 6, 2019 13:58:40 GMT
Disgraceful frankly, in war time they'd be shot. Personally think the EU's single market is economic warfare so I'd be fine with lining em up.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2019 14:32:00 GMT
So thornberry who is probably in my top 5 current mp to hate says she will campaign for remain and get best deal she can. FFS they don’t even want to talk about deals let alone let alone deals with uncommitted people. Jeez May said no deal better than a bad deal and ended up with a shit deal.
That’s the big problem they leave government ministers to discuss business that they don’t understand. It’s not even billion pound business it’s worth trillions in a full term of a government.
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Post by bubba on Sept 6, 2019 14:49:05 GMT
So thornberry who is probably in my top 5 current mp to hate says she will campaign for remain and get best deal she can. FFS they don’t even want to talk about deals let alone let alone deals with uncommitted people. Jeez May said no deal better than a bad deal and ended up with a shit deal. That’s the big problem they leave government ministers to discuss business that they don’t understand. It’s not even billion pound business it’s worth trillions in a full term of a government. Hypocritical traitors, no wonder they're running scared of a general election, they know full well their duplicitous shenanigans from the very beginning to overturn the democratic vote has been laid open for the nation to see. You'll still get hard liners that won't admit it but even a good portion of remainers aren't oblivious to what has transpired and happily I know that many of them regardless of their feelings on Brexit have been sickened by attempts to thwart democracy. Not all have been taken in by the propaganda and heavily skewed media and those numbers will only swell with MP's like this dropping the facade. All the posturing about we didn't vote for this and clearly they don't care what was voted for or what would be voted for, they want to be in charge, democracy be damned, and it will be if they ever get their way.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2019 14:56:41 GMT
My flat mate massive supporter of leave has recently been saying he would go back to voting Corbyn and brexit is a waste of time. I think partly because he wants an excuse to still vote for labour.
There is still a danger that despite all the big talk brexit party could get a shit tonne of votes but narrowly miss out on countless seats and hardly get any.
Hence why Boris is kinda morphing Tory into a self styled brextory party to snaffle the undecided voters. To be honest if they don’t then we could see that IRA lover get in.
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Post by billybeer on Sept 6, 2019 15:27:16 GMT
A European army? Multi national conscription? It could never happen, could it? No... it is just paranoid guff... No National Government... but ESPECIALLY THE FRENCH AND THE GERMANS would cede control of their Armed Forces... its a favourite theme of Brexiters though... especially driven by Kremlin disinformation campaigns... you know it’s a shit argument, because even the Hard Brexit Tories don’t use it... States might Pool resources, or have defence pacts (as countries have done since pre history)... but we do this already , most notably with NATO... but funny the (right wing) Brexiters seem to ignore this.. As for conscription of any sort... you are having a laugh... even Professional Soldiers (Infantry) are becoming outdated by AI and Robots.... again all lager soaked fantasies of Patsies of Putin and Trump sitting on Bar Stools, imaging the world is like the Victor comic they read as children... meanwhile in the real world, I and my family are about to lose real rights and priveledges... my wife who is German had her vote stolen by this Government at the last EU election... my company (which has been successful in Europe) is facing real logistical and financial difficulties foe WHat? The Brexiters have had three years to outline a single benefit but they just witter on in meaningless abstractions that will not make the lives of the man or woman in the street even a tiny bit better.
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Post by expatjohn on Sept 6, 2019 15:38:34 GMT
It was rather tongue in cheek, not something I believe is likely.
The sooner the whole mess is sorted and we can let the French and Germans get on with it, the better.
I'm sorry Bill, but your whole attitude that remainers know best is outrageously arrogant.
I fully intended to keep out of the debate as I'm actually suffering a reduced pension because of the selfish attitude of those who refuse to accept the result of the Referendum.
Stuff the House of Commons and unelected Eurocrats.
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Post by bubba on Sept 6, 2019 16:04:16 GMT
It was rather tongue in cheek, not something I believe is likely. The sooner the whole mess is sorted and we can let the French and Germans get on with it, the better. I'm sorry Bill, but your whole attitude that remainers know best is outrageously arrogant. I fully intended to keep out of the debate as I'm actually suffering a reduced pension because of the selfish attitude of those who refuse to accept the result of the Referendum. Stuff the House of Commons and unelected Eurocrats. Really? Well you and Billy may be surprised then to learn that it was a far far more accurate prediction than Billy's response.
The Guardian no less from November last year
Accordingly, both French president Emmanuel Macron and German chancellor Angela Merkel declared this month that they support the need to create a joint European army. The best way to understand this effort, said German minister of defence Ursula von der Leyen, is as an answer to Trump’s demand that Europeans spend more on defence.
Forces.net reported on the same story at the time
So far, there is absolutely no detail, beyond the phrase ‘true European Army’.
That phrase was used this week first by the French President and then the German Chancellor.
They both think it’s time for the concept to become reality, but a lot of details would have to be decided and agreed for that to happen.
Whilst Politico had this to say
EU, founded as project of peace, plans military future
While initial steps may seem small, experts say they represent revolutionary change.
The mood in the European Union on military affairs is undergoing a seismic shift.
Policymakers across the Continent finally agree that hard power — long viewed as antithetical to the EU's raison d'être — is now essential to the bloc's survival.
In Germany, under fire from U.S. President Donald Trump over military spending, there is renewed debate about becoming a nuclear power. In France, President Emmanuel Macron, citing a worrisome lack of joint EU military planning, has called for "a common intervention force, a common defence budget and a common doctrine for action."
In the U.K., security cooperation is a cornerstone of Prime Minister Theresa May's proposed post-Brexit relationship with the EU — one of few British demands that has won unvarnished praise in the rest of the EU.
Advocates of military cooperation say no less than the EU's survival is at stake. "Only together, we are strong," Michael Gahler, a German member of the European Parliament, said in July after the approval of a €500 million fund for research and development of defence industrial products. "Only united will Europeans face the challenges that emanate from Russia, disintegrating states in the neighbourhood and, unfortunately, the currently incalculable U.S. foreign and security policy."
Some EU leaders, most notably Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán, have called for creating an EU army. And Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker, urging greater strategic integration, has declared that "soft power alone is not powerful enough in an increasingly militarized world."
"Let’s be honest — Europe is still at the very start when it comes to a common foreign policy," Merkel said in a speech in May. "However, this is what we will need for our own survival because the nature of conflicts has changed completely since the end of the Cold War. A great many global conflicts are taking place on Europe’s doorstep. And it is not the case that the United States of America will simply protect us. Instead, Europe must take its destiny in its own hands. That is our job for the future.”
Merkel has cited the sprawling mix of weapons systems across Europe, a point also stressed by Gahler, the German MEP. "Nobody can explain why there are 178 different weapon systems in the EU compared to 30 in the U.S.," Gahler said. "The U.S. has a single type of main battle tank, while in the EU we have 17."
There is some unity among countries that joined PESCO, even if actual progress is slow.
The European Council in March approved an initial list of projects, including the creation of a European Medical Command, development of cyber rapid-response teams, and construction of an armored infantry fighting vehicle, to be built by Italy, Greece and Slovakia.
Diplomats said only two projects — the cyber initiative led by Lithuania and a Dutch-led initiative on military mobility — have made concrete progress so far.
But already defence ministers are looking at a further 33 projects put forward by member countries in recent months. They plan to draw up a shortlist for approval by December.
It seems some of Europe's leaders didn't get Billy's memo.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2019 16:09:06 GMT
It was rather tongue in cheek, not something I believe is likely. The sooner the whole mess is sorted and we can let the French and Germans get on with it, the better. I'm sorry Bill, but your whole attitude that remainers know best is outrageously arrogant. I fully intended to keep out of the debate as I'm actually suffering a reduced pension because of the selfish attitude of those who refuse to accept the result of the Referendum. Stuff the House of Commons and unelected Eurocrats. Well I’m sorry John, but your implication that leavers know best is also outrageously arrogant. The whole Leave argument has been based on lies, lies and more lies, including the ones which have been trotted out during this thread yet again. The fact is this: our membership of the EU could best be described as Germany +++ - we have all of the benefits of membership without the “inconveniences” (as some people see them) such as the Euro and Schengen. Stop trying to dress it up as something that it isn’t. It’s all about leavers not understanding the rules regarding immigration, people believing that leaving the EU will result in fewer Muslims for example. It’s xenophobia and rank nationalism pure and simple - a yearning for the days when Britain ruled the waves, most of the World Atlas was painted pink and the Sun never set on the Empire. Well, the world has moved on while we take a step backwards - several steps in fact, as we will shortly discover.
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Post by billybeer on Sept 6, 2019 16:16:11 GMT
It was rather tongue in cheek, not something I believe is likely. The sooner the whole mess is sorted and we can let the French and Germans get on with it, the better. I'm sorry Bill, but your whole attitude that remainers know best is outrageously arrogant. I fully intended to keep out of the debate as I'm actually suffering a reduced pension because of the selfish attitude of those who refuse to accept the result of the Referendum. Stuff the House of Commons and unelected Eurocrats. I have never said Remainers know better....just said Brexiters talk shit... Immigrants, Sovereignty, Trade Deals... suddenly they are experts but know little about European History, current International Relations or Economics apart from memes on Social Media or Conspiracy Theory/Ayn Rand books peddled by the lunatic American Right i said earlier that a compromise that would have been accepted by Remainers was the Norway option... that would have got through, although it would have satisfied no one, it would have created least harm and why are you getting a reduced pension... because the Pound is devalued? You can blame it on Johnson and Mogg (who apparently is making a pretty penny out of shorting the Pound by the way) who refused to back Mays Deal.leading to current uncertainty.. Sterling would be much stronger and more stable if we stayed in the Single Market and Customs Union... dont blame the Remainers or even the moderate Tories who supported Mays Deal... blame the Hardliners and the Farages who never take responsibility but talk about Betrayal... they are the ones plAying on National identity to make suckers out of the punters... don’t call me arrogant for telling a truth that in your heart you know is correct... for example would you trust your life savings with Farage or Johnson? No Anyway Johnson is a drunksrd who has lost his marbles... how could any people have voted to be PM a man who, just weeks ago, said this... www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2019/jun/25/johnson-models-buses-relax-video
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2019 16:20:22 GMT
The Norway option!
Utter twaddle!
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Post by blueinblack on Sept 6, 2019 16:28:21 GMT
It was rather tongue in cheek, not something I believe is likely. The sooner the whole mess is sorted and we can let the French and Germans get on with it, the better. I'm sorry Bill, but your whole attitude that remainers know best is outrageously arrogant. I fully intended to keep out of the debate as I'm actually suffering a reduced pension because of the selfish attitude of those who refuse to accept the result of the Referendum. Stuff the House of Commons and unelected Eurocrats. I have never said Remainers know better....just said Brexiters talk shit... Immigrants, Sovereignty, Trade Deals... suddenly they are experts but know little about European History, current International Relations or Economics apart from memes on Social Media or Conspiracy Theory/Ayn Rand books peddled by the lunatic American Right i said earlier that a compromise that would have been accepted by Remainers was the Norway option... that would have got through, although it would have satisfied no one, it would have created least harm and why are you getting a reduced pension... because the Pound is devalued? You can blame it on Johnson and Mogg (who apparently is making a pretty penny out of shorting the Pound by the way) who refused to back Mays Deal.leading to current uncertainty.. Sterling would be much stronger and more stable if we stayed in the Single Market and Customs Union... dont blame the Remainers or even the moderate Tories who supported Mays Deal... blame the Hardliners and the Farages who never take responsibility but talk about Betrayal... they are the ones plAying on National identity to make suckers out of the punters... don’t call me arrogant for telling a truth that in your heart you know is correct... for example would you trust your life savings with Farage or Johnson? No Anyway Johnson is a drunksrd who has lost his marbles... how could any people have voted to be PM a man who, just weeks ago, said this... www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2019/jun/25/johnson-models-buses-relax-videoDo you have to be an expert to have an opinion? If so can you tell me your credentials.
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Post by billybeer on Sept 6, 2019 16:29:24 GMT
No French President, German Chancellor or any other country will ever allow their Armed Forces to engage without their approval.... Have military co-operation amongst neighbours and allies. Is long standing... especially when investing in technology and infrastructure.
The British for example are currently aid8ngbthe French in Mali and Chad... Several countries have pooled together in NATO to have pooed assets... flying under NATO flag and command... But of course the nuances of modern diplomacy and 8nternational relations are not really what Brexiters interests or strong pioints... Of course there is the argument that the British would be best placed in the EU to maintain influence and manage their own self interest.. but hey we can be outside, isolated, pissing in the wind...
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Post by bubba on Sept 6, 2019 16:36:03 GMT
Ahh, the fingers in ears shouting la la la argument, always a good fallback option when the facts don't fit the rhetoric.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2019 16:40:01 GMT
No French President, German Chancellor or any other country will ever allow their Armed Forces to engage without their approval.... Have military co-operation amongst neighbours and allies. Is long standing... especially when investing in technology and infrastructure. The British for example are currently aid8ngbthe French in Mali and Chad... Several countries have pooled together in NATO to have pooed assets... flying under NATO flag and command... But of course the nuances of modern diplomacy and 8nternational relations are not really what Brexiters interests or strong pioints... Of course there is the argument that the British would be best placed in the EU to maintain influence and manage their own self interest.. but hey we can be outside, isolated, pissing in the wind... Are the Germans allowed to ?
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Post by blueinblack on Sept 6, 2019 16:41:50 GMT
Reading The Guardian is bad enough but quoting it😂😂
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Post by billybeer on Sept 6, 2019 16:42:40 GMT
I have never said Remainers know better....just said Brexiters talk shit... Immigrants, Sovereignty, Trade Deals... suddenly they are experts but know little about European History, current International Relations or Economics apart from memes on Social Media or Conspiracy Theory/Ayn Rand books peddled by the lunatic American Right i said earlier that a compromise that would have been accepted by Remainers was the Norway option... that would have got through, although it would have satisfied no one, it would have created least harm and why are you getting a reduced pension... because the Pound is devalued? You can blame it on Johnson and Mogg (who apparently is making a pretty penny out of shorting the Pound by the way) who refused to back Mays Deal.leading to current uncertainty.. Sterling would be much stronger and more stable if we stayed in the Single Market and Customs Union... dont blame the Remainers or even the moderate Tories who supported Mays Deal... blame the Hardliners and the Farages who never take responsibility but talk about Betrayal... they are the ones plAying on National identity to make suckers out of the punters... don’t call me arrogant for telling a truth that in your heart you know is correct... for example would you trust your life savings with Farage or Johnson? No Anyway Johnson is a drunksrd who has lost his marbles... how could any people have voted to be PM a man who, just weeks ago, said this... www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2019/jun/25/johnson-models-buses-relax-videoDo you have to be an expert to have an opinion? If so can you tell me your credentials. If you want to change things, then it sort of helps to know what you are talking about, and to recognise that arguments have to be made on the basis of evidence, logic and context.... things lamentably lacking in the current situation.., it’s called critical thinking..Meanwhile bad things are happening in the name of Brexit... Friends, work mates, relations are all been affected... for no tangible gain as for Me .. I just wanna live till I gotta die...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2019 16:43:07 GMT
God this is depressing can we get back to pep pls
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Post by bubba on Sept 6, 2019 16:51:04 GMT
Reading The Guardian is bad enough but quoting it😂😂 Sorry but you have to be careful as certain publications could say the sky is up and some people won't believe it. Some carried the same stories but would have been instantly dismissed as tainted sources (which of course they all are but I at least don't pick and choose the good ones and the bad ones because they say something I agree or disagree with)
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Post by blueinblack on Sept 6, 2019 16:52:41 GMT
Do you have to be an expert to have an opinion? If so can you tell me your credentials. If you want to change things, then it sort of helps to know what you are talking about, and to recognise that arguments have to be made on the basis of evidence, logic and context.... things lamentably lacking in the current situation.., it’s called critical thinking..Meanwhile bad things are happening in the name of Brexit... Friends, work mates, relations are all been affected... for no tangible gain as for Me .. I just wanna live till I gotta die... Since a firm called Uber came and obliterated my living, which I must say, I didn’t hear any dissenters other than EPJ, I’ve had to take another job. For the last 3 years I’ve been working as an immigration officer. Obviously I can’t say too much but if only you did know the truth on our border. I can tell you that no politician has ever told the truth on what’s happening and as an ‘ expert ‘ none of the so-called do gooders know or want to know what’s happening. You can sit at your Guardian dinner parties spouting about how great everything is but take it from someone who DOES know, you haven’t got a clue!! Rant over. Don’t normally get involved in this but I like how everyone’s an expert.
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Post by blueinblack on Sept 6, 2019 16:55:37 GMT
Reading The Guardian is bad enough but quoting it😂😂 Sorry but you have to be careful as certain publications could say the sky is up and some people won't believe it. Some carried the same stories but would have been instantly dismissed as tainted sources (which of course they all are but I at least don't pick and choose the good ones and the bad ones because they say something I agree or disagree with) This so called newspaper has run 3 articles on my wife this year. All factually incorrect and littered with untruths.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2019 17:01:11 GMT
If you want to change things, then it sort of helps to know what you are talking about, and to recognise that arguments have to be made on the basis of evidence, logic and context.... things lamentably lacking in the current situation.., it’s called critical thinking..Meanwhile bad things are happening in the name of Brexit... Friends, work mates, relations are all been affected... for no tangible gain as for Me .. I just wanna live till I gotta die... Since a firm called Uber came and obliterated my living, which I must say, I didn’t hear any dissenters other than EPJ, I’ve had to take another job. For the last 3 years I’ve been working as an immigration officer. Obviously I can’t say too much but if only you did know the truth on our border. I can tell you that no politician has ever told the truth on what’s happening and as an ‘ expert ‘ none of the so-called do gooders know or want to know what’s happening. You can sit at your Guardian dinner parties spouting about how great everything is but take it from someone who DOES know, you haven’t got a clue!! Rant over. Don’t normally get involved in this but I like how everyone’s an expert. But Uber are an American company, nothing to do with the EU ... en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uber
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Post by blueinblack on Sept 6, 2019 17:02:50 GMT
Who do you think their drivers are...New Yorkers??
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Post by billybeer on Sept 6, 2019 17:07:19 GMT
Sorry but you have to be careful as certain publications could say the sky is up and some people won't believe it. Some carried the same stories but would have been instantly dismissed as tainted sources (which of course they all are but I at least don't pick and choose the good ones and the bad ones because they say something I agree or disagree with) This so called newspaper has run 3 articles on my wife this year. All factually incorrect and littered with untruths. It was the first clip on my webpage...it’s the clip that’s important.. if that offends you then the bbc site also came up... www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-48766451/boris-johnson-i-make-models-of-busesby the way blueinblack... sorry about your situation... journalists can be lazy nasty bastards...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2019 17:07:31 GMT
Who do you think their drivers are...New Yorkers?? Do they refuse to use British drivers?
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Post by blueinblack on Sept 6, 2019 17:09:33 GMT
What do you mean by British drivers?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2019 17:12:38 GMT
What do you mean by British drivers? Well, drivers who are British. Drivers who hold a British passport. Drivers who were born in Britain. What do YOU mean by British Drivers?
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Post by blueinblack on Sept 6, 2019 17:32:18 GMT
If you’re born in Britain it doesn’t make you British. I think that law was repealed in 1982 but I’m not sure could be 81. In my experience most Uber drivers I have dealt with are on British Travel documents. What’s your experience of it in Teignmouth?
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